Best techniques for LOTS of banana?

Reads 2525 • Replies 18 • Started Tuesday, October 09, 2012 9:51:35 AM CT

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seymour
beers 1841 º places 50 º 09:51 Tue 10/9/2012

I tasted Schlafly Weissbier at a festival recently, and it nearly blew my mind with delicious banana esters. Overall, itís a pretty basic, light-colored, light-bodied, cloudy wheat beer but it was just exploding with banana in a good way.

From my research there are many German and Belgian yeast strains which produce banana esters. The historic Weihenstephan 68 strain is the most common (which is sold as White Labs WLP300 and Wyeast 3068) but also Weihenstephan 175, Munich, Ayinger, Andechs and most Trappist strains produce banana to varying degrees. Iíve also learned that fermentation temperature has a big impact on hanana esters. Brewers recommend fermenting warm, some specify 72 degrees F.

What do you recommend? Which yeast strain and temperature is best?

 
DietPepsican
beers 1581 º places 62 º 10:00 Tue 10/9/2012

Call 9789501670 and ask for Sunderam.

 
NobleSquirrel
beers 3439 º places 209 º 10:26 Tue 10/9/2012

Thereís also the possibility that a ferulic acid rest will result in increased banana esters as well.

 
joet
admin
beers 2508 º places 103 º 10:26 Tue 10/9/2012

Good question.

One thing to consider is that warmer temperature not only positively affects banana fruit ester formation but also phenol formation typically in the clove range with these yeasts. Because human sensitivity to these phenols can vary by at least a couple orders of magnitude, you have to be careful with liberal use of them.

Some tasters will freak.

So Iíd be looking for yeasts and temps that both maximize banana esters and minimize clovey phenols.

And something in me suggests just a touch of roasted peanuts or cashews to ground those fruit flavors and bring in the wheat.

 
seymour
beers 1841 º places 50 º 11:06 Tue 10/9/2012

Originally posted by NobleSquirrel
Thereís also the possibility that a ferulic acid rest will result in increased banana esters as well.


The historic German wheat beer strains like Weihenstephan 66, 175 and 68 produce a balance of clove and banana notes. I know what youíre getting at with the ferulic acid rest, but I think itís the other way around. According to David Bryant of the The Brewing Science Institute, "Longer the rest at 44˚C, the higher the 4-V-G (clove phenol)" which I believe would downplay the banana (isoamyl acetate.)

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=wheat%20beer%20yeast%20fermentation&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CCwQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mbaa.com%2FDistricts%2FMidSouth%2Fpresentations%2FWheat_Beer_Yeast__Fermentation2.pdf&ei=pGV0UPf1KarriQKb1oDYAg&usg=AFQjCNHaJHYIamzL9Jtqs3SOvubt5SaJGA

 
wnoble
beers 1251 º 13:09 Tue 10/9/2012

When using a traditional Weiss strain try pitching less yeast These strainsí banana character is pitch rat dependent along with other things mentioned. Iíve also read that you can use less oxygen rates but I donít know. I have used a big pitch of yeast in the past for a hefe and fermented in the 66 degree range and got almost zero banana. Pitch less=more banana.

 
SamGamgee
beers 2452 º places 182 º 14:27 Tue 10/9/2012

Use glucose or do a glucose-favoring mash. I canít seem to find the article, but I know a German brewing professor who wrote a good article on mashing to favor glucose production and enhance esters in weissbier. Also, increase original gravity, oxygenate less, and pitch less.

 
seymour
beers 1841 º places 50 º 15:19 Tue 10/9/2012

Originally posted by SamGamgee
Use glucose or do a glucose-favoring mash. I canít seem to find the article, but I know a German brewing professor who wrote a good article on mashing to favor glucose production and enhance esters in weissbier. Also, increase original gravity, oxygenate less, and pitch less.

Thanks, thatís interesting. How do I perform a glucose-favoring mash?

 
bitbucket
beers 2165 º places 63 º 20:26 Tue 10/9/2012

Originally posted by SamGamgee
Also, increase original gravity, oxygenate less, and pitch less.

And use Weihenstephan with higher ferment temps.
Give it plenty of headspace.

 
SamGamgee
beers 2452 º places 182 º 20:33 Tue 10/9/2012

Originally posted by seymour
Originally posted by SamGamgee
Use glucose or do a glucose-favoring mash. I canít seem to find the article, but I know a German brewing professor who wrote a good article on mashing to favor glucose production and enhance esters in weissbier. Also, increase original gravity, oxygenate less, and pitch less.

Thanks, thatís interesting. How do I perform a glucose-favoring mash?


Hereís the link: http://www.scribd.com/doc/78556575/Wheat-Beers-Michae-Eder

 
SamGamgee
beers 2452 º places 182 º 20:34 Tue 10/9/2012

Itís kind of a crazy mash, but I think by adding some dextrose to your boil, you can essentially get the same results, just not in a reinheitsgebot-friendly way.

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