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Brewer to brewer, Kolsch is indistinguishable


read 6666 times • 126 replies • posted 5/5/2013 7:14:25 AM

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Indra 2621:75
Friggin’ Republicans wouldn’t know a good Kölsch if it came to their house and took their guns away!
5/7/2013 9:13:28 PM

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Erlangernick 1:2
Originally posted by drewbeerme
[...] I don’t think you have to have visited cologne to have an idea of what a Kolsch beer is. I like the style for what it is, a crisp light session/lawnmower beer but I’d surely grow tired of it if that was all I could drink. And I’d pick a pilsner over it any day though.


Well, the effect of it being served from a big barrel under gravity pour, regardless of whether the barrel is wood (pitched, plastic or ??? lined?) or not shouldn’t be dismissed. It *is* different from the bottled stuff. I.e., you’d probably like it even more. So, book a trip now.
5/7/2013 10:59:24 PM

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omhper 19461:175
Originally posted by JK
I get it now. There is obviously something wrong with my palate and my knowledge of beer is lacking because I found Kolsch rathet flavorless and boring.


While I personally (as a fan of "boring" beer) find true kölsch (and altbier) from the barrel to be very satisfying and feel a stitch of disappointment when reading the comments, I very much welcome that you are voicing your opinion.
It sounds like you tried it with open eyes, were read up on it, but just didn’t like it.

It is all those people that do not have the self confidence to form their own opinions that concerns me. And - to a lesser extent people that dismiss stuff simply because they do not understand it and didn’t take the time to really try to figure out what it’s all about.
5/7/2013 11:02:21 PM

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Erlangernick 1:2
Originally posted by NobleSquirrel
Originally posted by Erlangernick
Accusations of palate drift are over-rated.


You’re joking, right? It happens with virtually everything. Spicy foods. Bitter beers. Dry wines. And so on. Just because Germany has 2000 beers that all fall within a very narrow range and that you’re forced to find differences doesn’t mean much. I know my perceptions of bitterness are very different now than even 5 years ago. To suggest that palate drift is over rated is silly.


In my case, it simply hasn’t happened. SNPA (and SNCA FTM) taste the same to me now as they did years and years ago. So does the utterly bland, slightly sweet Augustiner Edelstoff. Neither end of the spectrum has changed or drifted for me.

After leaving Oregon in 2004, I didn’t drink *any* pale ale of any kind until we returned for a visit in 2006. We’d drunk only local lagers in the interim, decidedly less hoppy and extreme than the likes of the local Oregon stuff. One would think I would’ve been shocked by the re-immersion into hops, particularly citric hops.

My first beer on that visit was Terminal Gravity IPA, and it tasted exACTly like it had from the past: what I’ve always called "chalky" bitterness that I think is from mostly Chinook hops.

After not having had bottled Deschutes for *years*, I got some Mirror Pond and Obsidian Stout a couple of years ago. I could tell that they were the same, dumbed-down, filtered versions that they became after Dr. Pengelly left the company around the turn of the century.

In the case of Kölsch, the idea of palate drift would suggest that after having been living in Germany for years, I would find Kölsch more interesting now than I did whilst visiting from Oregon...the opposite is the case though, and I really do believe certain people who know more than me are on to something when they say that the Kölsch brewers have been dumbing their beers down over the years.

Tolerance to chili is another animal.
5/7/2013 11:08:11 PM

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Erlangernick 1:2
Originally posted by omhper
Originally posted by JK
I get it now. There is obviously something wrong with my palate and my knowledge of beer is lacking because I found Kolsch rathet flavorless and boring.


While I personally (as a fan of "boring" beer) find true kölsch (and altbier) from the barrel to be very satisfying and feel a stitch of disappointment when reading the comments, I very much welcome that you are voicing your opinion.
It sounds like you tried it with open eyes, were read up on it, but just didn’t like it.

It is all those people that do not have the self confidence to form their own opinions that concerns me. And - to a lesser extent people that dismiss stuff simply because they do not understand it and didn’t take the time to really try to figure out what it’s all about.



Very nicely said. OTOH, I would extend the same sort of comment to people who seem to have the attitude that because 1. it’s so clean and mild, and 2. it’s German that it must be good. Well, lots of industrial lagers are clean and mild.

Is Kölsch just simply an industrial lagered ale without adjuncts?
5/7/2013 11:10:45 PM

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Erlangernick 1:2
Originally posted by JK
Originally posted by ContemplateBeer
Originally posted by hawthorne00
Originally posted by JK
I get it now. There is obviously something wrong with my palate and my knowledge of beer is lacking because I found Kolsch rathet flavorless and boring.
No, not much caring for Kölsch is not why. It is your claim in the title of your thread that Brewer to brewer, Kolsch is indistinguishable.
If I had an issue with what JKs saying, that would be it- that the thread title makes an authoritative claim based on nothing else but the author’s experience.


Sorry for not using the passive voice. Any half decent writer knows there is no need to inform the reader that one is about to give an opinion.


Well, you know, someone could see the headline and think that one brewer told another that Kölsch is indistinguishable.

I’ve always found it somewhat amusing when people get worked up about someone expressing their opinions on the internet without first declaring "in my opinion..."
5/7/2013 11:13:55 PM

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ContemplateBeer 1543:112
Originally posted by Erlangernick
Originally posted by JK
Originally posted by ContemplateBeer
Originally posted by hawthorne00
Originally posted by JK
I get it now. There is obviously something wrong with my palate and my knowledge of beer is lacking because I found Kolsch rathet flavorless and boring.
No, not much caring for Kölsch is not why. It is your claim in the title of your thread that Brewer to brewer, Kolsch is indistinguishable.
If I had an issue with what JKs saying, that would be it- that the thread title makes an authoritative claim based on nothing else but the author’s experience.


Sorry for not using the passive voice. Any half decent writer knows there is no need to inform the reader that one is about to give an opinion.


Well, you know, someone could see the headline and think that one brewer told another that Kölsch is indistinguishable.

I’ve always found it somewhat amusing when people get worked up about someone expressing their opinions on the internet without first declaring "in my opinion..."
I get that. I have to wonder if the thread title was intentionally inflammatory, and I can’t help but think that it was meant to be.
5/8/2013 2:38:26 AM

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robrules 1
>At the breweries, one fresh Kolsch is virtually indistinguishable from another. I could perceive little house character or differences between Paffgen, Muhlen, Sion, or Gaffel.



>Fresh Kolsch is substantially similar to well made but under-flavored yellow lager. There is a lack of complexity and variety to the style.



The second paragraph explains the first. If you can’t tell the difference between lager and kolsch you may want to drop all the flavor bombs you drink in the US and re-learn how to taste beer - from the ground up instead of top down this time.



And if you couldn’t tell the differences between the altbiers you had, your palate is quite suspect.

5/8/2013 1:36:56 PM

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pepsican 1447:46
Originally posted by Erlangernick

In my case, it simply hasn’t happened. SNPA (and SNCA FTM) taste the same to me now as they did years and years ago.


This doesn’t surprise me when you’re talking about aggressively bitter beer. Not much flavor going on in those mentioned, just harsh bitterness and some malt.
5/8/2013 1:51:45 PM

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McTapps 4143:138
Originally posted by Theydon_Bois
Was in Bochum last weekend and there was some kind of festival on. Ginger hairy piglets on display - never seen the like !


You have been in Bochum and haven’t drunk a Moritz Fiege at all? Unbelievable!
5/8/2013 2:04:45 PM

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