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Brewer to brewer, Kolsch is indistinguishable


read 6577 times • 126 replies • posted 5/5/2013 7:14:25 AM

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sthlm 1230:136
Originally posted by CLevar
Originally posted by KyotoLefty
Seems to me like this whole thread is about "US craft beers rock and the old world sucks." Kinda weird, though not surprising on this site.


ISO: .rar Cantillon.

Not to mention the weekly "Orval is the best beer in the world" threads.
5/6/2013 7:21:07 PM

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nuplastikk 4333:41
Originally posted by KyotoLefty
or∑di∑nar∑y
/íŰrdn?ere/
Adjective
With no special or distinctive features; normal.


It seems quite mistaken to me to say across the board that German beers have "no special or distinctive features." Actually, I simply canít understand that statement.

Seems to me like this whole thread is about "US craft beers rock and the old world sucks." Kinda weird, though not surprising on this site.




Who said the US craft beer rocks so hard anyway? While it may, I completely respect the German beer world and roll my eyes at anyone disparaging it. If you canít find anything to enjoy in Hefeweizem, Bock, Doppelbock, Rauchbier, Berliner Weisse, Weizenbock, Kellerbier, Pils, Alt ect..you have beer problems.

And if you think all the Alts taste the same in Dusseldorf, you mustíve really not been paying attention.

1.80 for a Kolsch or Alt does kind of suck, was around 1 euro when I was there in 2003.
5/6/2013 7:25:05 PM

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SHIG 3565:203
Originally posted by KyotoLefty
or∑di∑nar∑y
/íŰrdn?ere/
Adjective
With no special or distinctive features; normal.


It seems quite mistaken to me to say across the board that German beers have "no special or distinctive features." Actually, I simply canít understand that statement.

Seems to me like this whole thread is about "US craft beers rock and the old world sucks." Kinda weird, though not surprising on this site.




Everyone is making this into US vs the world. Last I new ratebeer was about voicing your opinions on beer, not personal attacks on others views. It seems that many have forgotten this fact. When I started here 7 yrs ago I canít remember it being this drama filled. I guess we have reached the level where drama ensues if someone beliefs different from the masses/the real beer raters.

Since all of you seem to know me so well and obviously want to discredit my existence/experiences outside the US since I now call Anchorage home. Here the facts of my life since 2000.

Moved to Germany May 2000-Nov 04
South Korea Dec 04-Jan 06
Germany Jan 06-09 started rating and getting into beer Jan 06
Italy Feb 09-11
South Korea Mar 11-12
Anchorage Apr 12-Jan 13
UAE Jan 13-hopefully out of here soon.

As you can see I grew up learning about craft beer in Europe not the US. However in my time in Germany I can honestly say I was not won over by their styles and find them boring. I also could not to this day differentiate between several German brewers and their take on a particular style. This came apparent after reviewing notes from the Berlin Beerfest in í08. 60+ samples from almost every region of Germany with similar notes on each beer in style. I credit them with tradition and flawless presentation to their craft, but this causes them to almost all taste the same to me in each given style. Now I can take into account that I am by no means the expert and probably never will be on all things beer, but I would appreciate this site going back to where we all could voice our opinions freely without being judges by condescending "know it all". In the end its about learning more and enjoying beer. Iím sure I can still learn more about these styles and maybe someday enjoy them as passionately as others do, but that will come from people providing feedback instead of picking apart peoples opinions.

Can we now go back to the original topic? Or are we going to continue attacking ME until this becomes yet another frozen/disappeared thread?

5/6/2013 7:41:52 PM

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eaglefan538 2886:92
Koelsch and altbier are tools to expose unrefined ignorance in supposed beer experts. They further help to distinguish those that need bold or outrageous extremes in brewing to get excited or differentiate. They also help to provide fodder for beer geek forums.

I havenít been back to either city, Koln or Dusseldorf, in five or so years. Iíd go back in a second. Wonderful summertime experiences. There are clearly examples of either style that are blah, excellent, and actually quite bad - in both cities. Go to the US and you often find complete bastardizations of both styles. They arenít easy to brew well. They travel poorly too. Either is a tough experience in the US. Cambridge in Connecticut does them both quite well.
5/6/2013 7:50:20 PM

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tennisjoel 1166:32
Originally posted by adnielsen
If you have problems distinguishing Kolsch, maybe itís time that you try the best Kolsch in the world: Cigar City Pilot Series Pineapple Kolsch.




Yes, thatís sounds awesome, even if it is technically a fruit beer.
5/6/2013 8:41:34 PM

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CLevar 376:10
Originally posted by KyotoLefty
Originally posted by CLevar
Originally posted by KyotoLefty
or∑di∑nar∑y
/íŰrdn?ere/
Adjective
With no special or distinctive features; normal.


It seems quite mistaken to me to say across the board that German beers have "no special or distinctive features." Actually, I simply canít understand that statement.

Seems to me like this whole thread is about "US craft beers rock and the old world sucks." Kinda weird, though not surprising on this site.




ISO: .rar Cantillon.

Yes, thatís one of the exceptions.


I donít know about that being an exception instead of an example of a more general rule. (I would say that something like Hill Farmstead as it relates to American Breweries is more of an exception than Cantillon is to Euro breweries discussed on this site, but I digress) You can always find plenty of people who will go off about QC, carbonation, acetic character, one dimensionality, malt profile, hop profile, etc, etc, etc of American examples of Euro styles (not just sours), but lots of folks will jump to the defense of Euro brews (as evidenced by this thread...).

Just my $.02. What do I know, anyway?
5/6/2013 9:38:08 PM

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KyotoLefty 6318:457
I think itís a mistake to say that anyone who disagrees with the OP (and others of the same camp) is harassing. I for one havenít harassed anyone. This kind of OP is provocative, and it was obviously meant to be: a sweeping generalization with which many people were likely to disagree, like "I finally went to Cologne and donít see what all the fuss is about..." ("Even though so many of you say the kolsch there is so special..." being implied.) Thatís fine.

Itís also fine (and to be expected) that many people simply and strongly disagree. Does that mean weíre the experts? Not necessarily. But what I find interesting is this: If you say: "Kolsch is boring," or "I donít like weizens." There is nothing I can really say, as that is your preference. But if you say "All kolschs taste the same," or "German beers have no distinctive features," then we are talking about a more objective claim. I find kolsch to be not very interesting overall, but have been to Cologne twice and tried several of them there, and when I hear someone saying that they are indistinguishable one from another, I imagine that person must not have been paying much attention.
5/6/2013 9:55:25 PM

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StefanSD 2117:45
For some reason Iím reminded of another thread by the original poster. Anyone remember this one--
http://www.ratebeer.com/forums/minnesota-is-rating-cigar-city_124073.htm
5/6/2013 10:29:53 PM

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left_bank 69:47
ya,the 3rd comment in this thread,which was mine,said something similar to "how predictable" from this poster...which i deleted cause i did not think that this thread was worth 7+ pages.
5/6/2013 11:34:59 PM

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Erlangernick 1:2
Has KŲlsch not changed over the years though? Iíve heard this from non-ratebeerians whose palates I know to trust and respect, whoíve visited the city repeatedly...even for decades in one case.

My own first visit in 2002 found me loving the fine subtleties in the differences between FrŁh and MalzmŁhle. But then on more recent visits, itís like, hmmm, theyíre starting to resemble each other more and more. (Feel free to suggest I suffer from palate drift -- I donít, but no one has to believe me.)

Ron, please tell us about where that Braufactum Bitterbier fits into all this -- did KŲlsch *used* to not be more like that?
5/7/2013 12:32:24 AM

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