Apart from GBBF and Manchester I am unaware of any other festivals with proper cask cooling which I regard as disgraceful. I am sure there are a couple more festivals that do but all of those that I have attended use a thin piece of stockinette around a cask kept moist which does very little to cool a cask, certainly the beer is never served at the correct cellar temperature as defined by cask marque.
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Originally posted by SilkTork
Dirty, cliquey, old men pubs which don’t serve food and don’t welcome children are a thing of the past.
I’ve been in a fair few Wetherspoons pubs early doors that give the impression of being just that. But I take your general point. |
Originally posted by SilkTork
CAMRA was really important in the 70s. It’s importance cannot be over-stated. The combination of CAMRA and Michael Jackson meant that across the world we have a range of beers, rather than just pale lager. I have no doubt that without those two, today we’d all be drinking filtered, force-carbonated pale lager.
But CAMRA is no longer important. Tim Martin has more impact on cask beer and on pubs than CAMRA. Tim Martin showed that it is possible to sell cask ale and make a profit. Tim Martin showed that if you sell decent everyday food, that a range of people will come out to your pub and spend money. CAMRA whine about pubs closing, and then direct punters to dreary, dirty, food-less pubs where a few dribbling old men stand around the bar, and there’s nothing for children, and the ladies toilet is only there because its a legal requirement, while Wetherspoons shows that all day opening with all day food, a large range of cask ales, and an open policy where everyone is welcome, is the way to go. Dirty, cliquey, old men pubs which don’t serve food and don’t welcome children are a thing of the past.
CAMRA should give up its super-complaint privilege, stop campaigning (because it’s lost touch with what people want, and what pubs need, so its campaigns are counter-productive), stop publishing the GBG (because they select the wrong pubs and send out the wrong message) and simply concentrate on being a social club which organises decent beer festivals.
Bang on the monies again.  I will add this. I have lost a huge amount of respect for CAMRA since they issued a rather dreadful young person’s leaflet campaign. As highlighted by my friend’s blog here.
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Originally posted by evilempire
In the main, I agree with SilkTork - none of us should forget what CAMRA did in the 70s, when they did literally save real ale and by default the diversity of beer. In the 80s they were an active campaign even if their campaigns often came to nowt.
But through the 90s as they grew they became more and more of a club. In the ’80s Whitbread had their infamous ’Tour of Destruction’, and CAMRA fought them. In the ’00s Greedy Kerching went on a Tour of Destruction of their own, and how did CAMRA react? By continuing to accept their adverts, by promoting them in What’s Boring, by letting them sponsor GBBF, by continuing to take their beer for beer festivals (with some honourable exceptions). By giving them a CBOB award (Without even going into what this says about the integrity of the judging, a proper campaign wouldn’t have had GK beers in it in the first place!). Campaign? Well, we best not campaign against the hand that feeds…
The campaigns they do run are mostly trivial. Mandatory lined glasses? FFS! As if that would have any impact other than prices going up! If you get a short measure, ask for a top-up - regardless of the moral right here, the reality is if landlords start getting 68 pints rather than 72 ’pints’ out of a barrel, the price has to go up… OK fair play on the duty cut thing, though that is a rare exception, and a small victory really, still a long way from cutting our duty to the EU average!
CAMRA have acknowledged that 150,000+ inactive members are far less effective than 10,000 active ones would be, but they still incentivise this… How many people sign up for the McSpoons vouchers? How many people sign up, drunk, at a beer festival?
CAMRA have shown they are a business before a campaign. They may as well rebrand themselves as a club. Who knows, they may even be more respected if they stopped telling publicans and brewers how to run their businesses on the basis of how things were in the 70s…
A friend of mine who works in the industry (not the blog girl) said they are a members’ club for people who like boring brown bitters. I think that was apt. |
Originally posted by evilempire
interesting points, though I have mixed feelings on some of them. The ’holding beers back’ thing can go too far - I’ve seen festivals refuse to sell a beer cos it’s not crystal clear, in some cases even after the brewer has tried it and declared it fit for sale… they then ullage it if it didn’t clear by the end of the festival! I’m not gonna get into the whole clear/hazy beer thing here, but many festivals only put the beers on stillage a day before opening, and many beers just don’t drop that quickly (ironically the quickest ones to clear are the ones that have been conditioned in the brewery and racked almost bright, something of which CAMRA disapproves). Hardly fair to the brewer, especially if it came from a wholesaler so he didn’t know it was going in a festival…
Crystal clear beer is their big problem. I have bar people who won’t serve perfectly good beer because it hasn’t dropped then it becomes old and you lose the hop qualities. It winds me up and I rarely visit that pub now. |
Originally posted by cgarvieuk
Originally posted by Gary
continuity is important to me ..in all areas of life - if youre not consistent your results will be variable in anything . if its ok for me to take a bottle of Lambic to my table @ 12 and then some different dick tells me its not allowed @ 1 ... i have a problem ..as ive told them ..
That could well be someone making a mistake early.
I know GBBF has a no open bottle rule. If your working a bar you should follow that rule. The fact that one person doesnt follow it, doesnt make it right that the rest shouldnt.
Ive worked many festivals and find your "little hitler" reference both inaccurate and offensive.
All the Bar staff at a festival are volunteers. Most of them have NO more control of the rules than you do. But if your going to help out, you should follow the rules. It doesnt make then "little Hitlers" for doign what theyve been ask to do.
I agree with Craig I’ve never seen this before at CAMRA festivals. |
Originally posted by evilempire
or a bar manager refusing to put beers on for seemingly arbitrary reasons
id agree there, and am often puzzled by some decisions ,but the same thing prob happens in pubs and you just dont see it.
In the end the man runnign the bar calls the shots , no matter where that bar is |
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Originally posted by SilkTork
CAMRA was really important in the 70s. It’s importance cannot be over-stated. The combination of CAMRA and Michael Jackson meant that across the world we have a range of beers, rather than just pale lager. I have no doubt that without those two, today we’d all be drinking filtered, force-carbonated pale lager.
But CAMRA is no longer important. Tim Martin has more impact on cask beer and on pubs than CAMRA. Tim Martin showed that it is possible to sell cask ale and make a profit. Tim Martin showed that if you sell decent everyday food, that a range of people will come out to your pub and spend money. CAMRA whine about pubs closing, and then direct punters to dreary, dirty, food-less pubs where a few dribbling old men stand around the bar, and there’s nothing for children, and the ladies toilet is only there because its a legal requirement, while Wetherspoons shows that all day opening with all day food, a large range of cask ales, and an open policy where everyone is welcome, is the way to go. Dirty, cliquey, old men pubs which don’t serve food and don’t welcome children are a thing of the past.
CAMRA should give up its super-complaint privilege, stop campaigning (because it’s lost touch with what people want, and what pubs need, so its campaigns are counter-productive), stop publishing the GBG (because they select the wrong pubs and send out the wrong message) and simply concentrate on being a social club which organises decent beer festivals.
I generally agree with what you have written there. I may be old fashioned though but I’m not a huge fan of pubs becoming a childrens playground, if people are going to bring kids into pubs they should at least control them. I wasn’t aloud near a pub in the 70’s when I was growing up, my Dad bought a half pint of shandy to the car for me.
On the subject of CAMRA, I have been a member for many years not because I think that they are great but partly for the reduced entry to beer festivals etc. I agree with a fair bit of what they stand for and most of the folks who work at the beer fests do a good job, voluntarily. |
Originally posted by SilkTork
CAMRA whine about pubs closing, and then direct punters to dreary, dirty, food-less pubs where a few dribbling old men stand around the bar, and there’s nothing for children, and the ladies toilet is only there because its a legal requirement
I can’t pretend to follow all the pub campaigning stuff assiduously but I believe a key consideration is that, once a pub is lost, it’s generally lost forever. There have been plenty of instances where crappy, failing pubs - often being deliberately run down by pubcos with a view to change of use & sale - have been transformed by a change of ownership and attitude.
I certainly wouldn’t advocate that every pub should be saved but I can think of plenty of situations where it is a laudable aim - heritage value, architectural/design merit, community value etc. I don’t see anything objectionable in seeking to preserve our heritage & community assets in appropriate cases.
What I do think is a bit unrealistic in most cases is the concept that the pub can be restored to "hub of the community" status, in the cities and big towns at least. Probably more relevant in rural areas, especially "only pub in the village" scenarios where the pub often fulfils (or could fulfil) multiple roles. Of course, most pubs cater to a particular community although that community is more likely to be defined by common interests than geographic proximity these days. |
Originally posted by imdownthepub
The strength of CAMRA and its super complainant status is a good thing if used correctly, it has taken a long while to achieve this and it gives the market sector, us, a voice.
I tend to agree. There is definitely an important role for a beer consumers’ organisation. However - and I admit I have not checked out the requirements for supercomplainant status in detail - it seems to me that a key component would have to be an interest in, and appreciation of, a complete range of relevant consumer issues. There is quite a wide perception of CAMRA, from both outside and inside, that it is rather too "single issue" to fill that role properly.
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