Cellarmaker diacetyl problems

Reads 3305 • Replies 22 • Started Wednesday, December 24, 2014 9:51:07 PM CT

The forums you're viewing are the static, archived version. You won't be able to post or reply here.
Our new, modern forums are here:
RateBeer Forums

Thread Frozen

Message joeneugs beers 6372 º places 240 º 21:24 Fri 12/26/2014 Sorry guys
Message joet P admin beers 2900 º places 125 º 11:19 Tue 12/30/2014 No need to apologize! It’s been a good discussion. There’s a test at the bottom of the below page for alpha acetolactate (AAL) which can convert to diacetyl over time and with heat. http://www.professorbeer.com/articles/diacetyl.html
Message joet P admin beers 2900 º places 125 º 11:27 Tue 12/30/2014 Originally posted by SamGamgee Definitely tasted an uncomfortably high level In a couple of their beers. Not gross, but wouldn’t be acceptable for me as a brewer in hoppy styles especially. I’d be curious to know what yeast strain they use. Could be a high flocculating strain. So high flocculating would suggest a greater tendency to leave alpha aceto lactate in the beer?

Message bytemesis P beers 15308 º places 1595 º 11:46 Tue 12/30/2014 Interesting. I will need to pay close attention next time I am there. So if I have it right, the likely cause is that they are bringing their beer to sale too quickly, yes? (Assuming that it’s aal conversion and not one of the other causes.) And if they left the beer unfiltered, it would be a self solving problem, yes?
Message joet P admin beers 2900 º places 125 º 12:24 Tue 12/30/2014 Originally posted by bytemesis Interesting. I will need to pay close attention next time I am there. So if I have it right, the likely cause is that they are bringing their beer to sale too quickly, yes? (Assuming that it’s aal conversion and not one of the other causes.) And if they left the beer unfiltered, it would be a self solving problem, yes? This whole line of speculation is following Sam’s educated hunch, and it seems that this partuicular general issue is one of exposure of the yeast to the beer. As Sam suggested the level and type of flocculation could change this exposure level, as could the shape of a fermentation vessel. joeneugs, are these a) growler samples, b) samples at the brewery or c) tap samples from an account?
Message joeneugs beers 6372 º places 240 º 15:40 Tue 12/30/2014 Samples at the brewery and growlers I’ve taken home....now that you mention it, it seems the problem is worse in the fresher beers. The two I tasted it in the last time I was there were just tapped the day before. The best hoppy Cellarmaker beers I’ve had have been at accounts away from the brewery. Do we know for sure that they filter? If not, it may be possible that’s there’s still enough yeast in suspension to eliminate the diacetyl in the keg. I’m not as experienced on the subject as Sam, but from what I’ve read, a diacetyl rest only needs to be about 72 hours at warmer temps to eliminate most of it above flavor thresholds.
Message Getbetter beers 1033 º places 17 º 23:45 Tue 12/30/2014 Now all I’m going to be thinking about is this when I do drink there next.

Message joeneugs beers 6372 º places 240 º 20:46 Fri 1/2/2015 Just had their new IPA The Glow at Caps & Taps this afternoon. NO BUTTER. Really fresh, hoppy clean and beautiful. Looking at brokensails review of the same beer from the brewery it seems like this is a brewery only problem.
Message SamGamgee P beers 2452 º places 182 º 12:50 Sun 1/4/2015 Originally posted by joet Originally posted by SamGamgee Definitely tasted an uncomfortably high level In a couple of their beers. Not gross, but wouldn’t be acceptable for me as a brewer in hoppy styles especially. I’d be curious to know what yeast strain they use. Could be a high flocculating strain. So high flocculating would suggest a greater tendency to leave alpha aceto lactate in the beer? Yes. Higher flocculation leads to faster settling times which means less time for the yeast to reabsorb AAL. Visited again last week and it was apparent that they are using something like WLP 002 English Ale as their house ale yeast (could be wrong but this quality, along with a big fruity ester flavor in their pale beers makes me think this is the case). Tasted some level of diacetyl in all of their pale beers except the blonde (including the glow). Sometimes this is just due to a couple bum generations of yeast health reflecting what is on tap right now. If could be rushed production, but also many other reasons for poor yeast performance. When you use a strain like that, paying attention to wort aeration, fermentation temperatures, pitching rates, yeast viability and such is very important. Lots of small brewers have slumps like this (Magnolia especially) and I’m sure they will get out of it. I should be clear that diacetyl levels were not extremely high in these beers, just noticeable to someone trained in tasting. I’m sure most people aren’t picking it out and are probably fine with these beers. Most people don’t mind a low level of diacetyl.
Message brokensail P admin beers 21480 º places 1691 º 12:59 Sun 1/4/2015 Originally posted by SamGamgee I should be clear that diacetyl levels were not extremely high in these beers, just noticeable to someone trained in tasting. I’m sure most people aren’t picking it out and are probably fine with these beers. Most people don’t mind a low level of diacetyl. Yup. On my last visit, I took a couple friends there who are just sort of getting in to beer and they didn’t notice the butter at all and quite liked the two beers I found diacteyl in.