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Chocolate


read 918 times • 19 replies • posted 9/16/2012 4:29:10 PM

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CLevar 13
Originally posted by HornyDevil
From my experience, the only thing that cocoa nibs impart is the bitterness that comes from dark chocolate. Though I think that is important, you can easily get that from the use of highly kilned grains instead of wasting money, time, and energy on the nibs.


Interesting. Thatís not at all what the review on Northern Brewer indicate...we will see I guess!
9/17/2012 6:52:17 AM

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jbrana 488:33
Originally posted by HornyDevil
From my experience, the only thing that cocoa nibs impart is the bitterness that comes from dark chocolate. Though I think that is important, you can easily get that from the use of highly kilned grains instead of wasting money, time, and energy on the nibs.


I strongly disagree with this statement. I feel that nibs give the most full chocolate flavor if you are patient enough to let the beer sit on the nibs in secondary for an adequate amount of time. It must be at least 4 weeks and can go up to a few months for better results. Aside from my own experience, Terrapin Moo Hoo and Samuel Adams Chocolate Bock might be two of the most chololatey beers Iíve ever tasted, and they both use this method for extracting the chocolate flavor.

While , cocoa powder is not a terrible option, I wouldnít recommend it unless itís done in the mash. Most of it will simply settle, and what is left will make the texture of your beer gritty.

For most effectiveness with cocoa nibs, let them soak in vodka or bourbon. I typically soak them in bourbon on brew day, and add them two weeks later to the secondary. Also, adding a small amount of vanilla bean with the nibs will help the chocolate pop and stand out more.

Hope that helps. Cheers!
9/17/2012 7:01:11 AM

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HornyDevil
Originally posted by CLevar
Originally posted by HornyDevil
From my experience, the only thing that cocoa nibs impart is the bitterness that comes from dark chocolate. Though I think that is important, you can easily get that from the use of highly kilned grains instead of wasting money, time, and energy on the nibs.


Interesting. Thatís not at all what the review on Northern Brewer indicate...we will see I guess!


From Northern Brewer:

Cacao nibs are crushed pieces of cocoa beans that can be added to a secondary fermentation to provide a distinct and natural chocolate flavor. These pure cacao nibs are intensely flavorful and chocolately. The nibs from Ghana are very roastey and earthy, providing a dark, smooth chocolate flavor.

However, hereís the problem with that statement:

To make 1 kg (2.2 pounds) of chocolate, about 300 to 600 beans are processed, depending on the desired cocoa content. In a factory, the beans are roasted. Next they are cracked and then de-shelled by a "winnower". The resulting pieces of beans are called nibs. They are usually sold in small packages at specialty stores and markets to be used in cooking, snacking and chocolate dishes. Since nibs are directly from the cocoa tree, they contain high amounts of theobromine.( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theobromine ) Most nibs are ground, using various methods, into a thick creamy paste, known as chocolate liquor or cocoa paste. This "liquor" is then further processed into chocolate by mixing in (more) cocoa butter and sugar (and sometimes vanilla and lecithin as an emulsifier), and then refined, conched and tempered. Alternatively, it can be separated into cocoa powder and cocoa butter using a hydraulic press or the Broma process. This process produces around 50% cocoa butter and 50% cocoa powder. Standard cocoa powder has a fat content of approximately 10Ė12 percent. Cocoa butter is used in chocolate bar manufacture, other confectionery, soaps, and cosmetics.

Treating with alkali produces Dutch process cocoa powder, which is less acidic, darker and more mellow in flavor than what is generally available in most of the world. Regular (non-alkalized) cocoa is acidic,[citation needed] so when cocoa is treated with an alkaline ingredient, generally potassium carbonate, the pH increases.[citation needed] This process can be done at various stages during manufacturing, including during nib treatment, liquor treatment or press cake treatment.

Another process that helps develop the flavor is roasting. Roasting can be done on the whole bean before shelling or on the nib after shelling. The time and temperature of the roast affect the result: A "low roast" produces a more acid, aromatic flavor, while a high roast gives a more intense, bitter flavor lacking complex flavor notes.


Translation:

cocoa nibs = high bitterness, less chocolate flavor
processed cocoa = lower bitterness, more chocolate flavor
9/17/2012 8:10:12 AM

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CLevar 13
Originally posted by HornyDevil
Originally posted by CLevar
Originally posted by HornyDevil
From my experience, the only thing that cocoa nibs impart is the bitterness that comes from dark chocolate. Though I think that is important, you can easily get that from the use of highly kilned grains instead of wasting money, time, and energy on the nibs.


Interesting. Thatís not at all what the review on Northern Brewer indicate...we will see I guess!


From Northern Brewer:

Cacao nibs are crushed pieces of cocoa beans that can be added to a secondary fermentation to provide a distinct and natural chocolate flavor. These pure cacao nibs are intensely flavorful and chocolately. The nibs from Ghana are very roastey and earthy, providing a dark, smooth chocolate flavor.

However, hereís the problem with that statement:

To make 1 kg (2.2 pounds) of chocolate, about 300 to 600 beans are processed, depending on the desired cocoa content. In a factory, the beans are roasted. Next they are cracked and then de-shelled by a "winnower". The resulting pieces of beans are called nibs. They are usually sold in small packages at specialty stores and markets to be used in cooking, snacking and chocolate dishes. Since nibs are directly from the cocoa tree, they contain high amounts of theobromine.( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theobromine ) Most nibs are ground, using various methods, into a thick creamy paste, known as chocolate liquor or cocoa paste. This "liquor" is then further processed into chocolate by mixing in (more) cocoa butter and sugar (and sometimes vanilla and lecithin as an emulsifier), and then refined, conched and tempered. Alternatively, it can be separated into cocoa powder and cocoa butter using a hydraulic press or the Broma process. This process produces around 50% cocoa butter and 50% cocoa powder. Standard cocoa powder has a fat content of approximately 10Ė12 percent. Cocoa butter is used in chocolate bar manufacture, other confectionery, soaps, and cosmetics.

Treating with alkali produces Dutch process cocoa powder, which is less acidic, darker and more mellow in flavor than what is generally available in most of the world. Regular (non-alkalized) cocoa is acidic,[citation needed] so when cocoa is treated with an alkaline ingredient, generally potassium carbonate, the pH increases.[citation needed] This process can be done at various stages during manufacturing, including during nib treatment, liquor treatment or press cake treatment.

Another process that helps develop the flavor is roasting. Roasting can be done on the whole bean before shelling or on the nib after shelling. The time and temperature of the roast affect the result: A "low roast" produces a more acid, aromatic flavor, while a high roast gives a more intense, bitter flavor lacking complex flavor notes.


Translation:

cocoa nibs = high bitterness, less chocolate flavor
processed cocoa = lower bitterness, more chocolate flavor



Hmm...I was speaking more to the user reviews, but maybe I will have to add some processed coco too!
9/17/2012 8:30:56 AM

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jbrana 488:33
Originally posted by HornyDevil
Originally posted by CLevar
Originally posted by HornyDevil
From my experience, the only thing that cocoa nibs impart is the bitterness that comes from dark chocolate. Though I think that is important, you can easily get that from the use of highly kilned grains instead of wasting money, time, and energy on the nibs.


Interesting. Thatís not at all what the review on Northern Brewer indicate...we will see I guess!


From Northern Brewer:

Cacao nibs are crushed pieces of cocoa beans that can be added to a secondary fermentation to provide a distinct and natural chocolate flavor. These pure cacao nibs are intensely flavorful and chocolately. The nibs from Ghana are very roastey and earthy, providing a dark, smooth chocolate flavor.

However, hereís the problem with that statement:

To make 1 kg (2.2 pounds) of chocolate, about 300 to 600 beans are processed, depending on the desired cocoa content. In a factory, the beans are roasted. Next they are cracked and then de-shelled by a "winnower". The resulting pieces of beans are called nibs. They are usually sold in small packages at specialty stores and markets to be used in cooking, snacking and chocolate dishes. Since nibs are directly from the cocoa tree, they contain high amounts of theobromine.( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theobromine ) Most nibs are ground, using various methods, into a thick creamy paste, known as chocolate liquor or cocoa paste. This "liquor" is then further processed into chocolate by mixing in (more) cocoa butter and sugar (and sometimes vanilla and lecithin as an emulsifier), and then refined, conched and tempered. Alternatively, it can be separated into cocoa powder and cocoa butter using a hydraulic press or the Broma process. This process produces around 50% cocoa butter and 50% cocoa powder. Standard cocoa powder has a fat content of approximately 10Ė12 percent. Cocoa butter is used in chocolate bar manufacture, other confectionery, soaps, and cosmetics.

Treating with alkali produces Dutch process cocoa powder, which is less acidic, darker and more mellow in flavor than what is generally available in most of the world. Regular (non-alkalized) cocoa is acidic,[citation needed] so when cocoa is treated with an alkaline ingredient, generally potassium carbonate, the pH increases.[citation needed] This process can be done at various stages during manufacturing, including during nib treatment, liquor treatment or press cake treatment.

Another process that helps develop the flavor is roasting. Roasting can be done on the whole bean before shelling or on the nib after shelling. The time and temperature of the roast affect the result: A "low roast" produces a more acid, aromatic flavor, while a high roast gives a more intense, bitter flavor lacking complex flavor notes.


Translation:

cocoa nibs = high bitterness, less chocolate flavor
processed cocoa = lower bitterness, more chocolate flavor



Ttheobromine is in both nibs and powder hence why cocoa powder is bitter. Chocolate needs a bittering agent to balance the sweetness, and this is perfectly fine as long as you can draw the sweetness from the cocoa as well. This is why nibs are more suited for the job as they have more depth, and donít simply settle to the bottom of the carboy. Again, the key is to truly be patient and let the beer sit on the nibs for an adequate amount of time, and using bourbon or vodka will help extract some of the sweet tones that are commonly associated with milk chocolate.
9/17/2012 8:35:12 AM

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HornyDevil
Firstly, let me say that weíll have to agree to disagree.

However, let me expound upon that.

Originally posted by jbrana
Ttheobromine is in both nibs and powder hence why cocoa powder is bitter.


The powder isnít anywhere near as bitter as the nibs.

Originally posted by jbrana
Chocolate needs a bittering agent to balance the sweetness, and this is perfectly fine as long as you can draw the sweetness from the cocoa as well.


Agreed.

Originally posted by jbrana
This is why nibs are more suited for the job as they have more depth, and donít simply settle to the bottom of the carboy. Again, the key is to truly be patient and let the beer sit on the nibs for an adequate amount of time, and using bourbon or vodka will help extract some of the sweet tones that are commonly associated with milk chocolate.


I think the "depth" that the nibs have is unbalanced and that the processing that cocoa powder goes through improves that balance. Thatís why they process the cocoa nibs in the first place. To make them more easily usable and more palatable.

Also, whether the alcohol you use to extract the flavor is from your beer or from bourbon or vodka, that alcohol is still going to extract additional theobromine making it additionally bitter.



9/17/2012 9:27:23 AM

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Manoftyr
-shrugs- Iíve had success using a semi-sweetened dark chocolate bakers syrup and adding it at the end of the boil to make a mighty fine chocolate stout.
9/20/2012 9:49:16 AM

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Manoftyr
Then again, I also aged it on dark cocoa nibs in secondary as well...but I was really going for an intensely rich chocolate flavor.
9/20/2012 9:50:57 AM

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BMan1113VR 7874:379
At work, weíve gotten a really good chocolate flavor through just nibs and vanilla beans (both in quite strong quantities)
9/20/2012 5:45:02 PM

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