Columbus+Motueka IPA

Originally posted by CLevar
But seriously aside from moving the hop additions to later in the boil, has anything come out of this thread?

Here was my summary from pg 4: "As to the original post...i hope we can all agree that 7% 30L that was posted in the original recipe, while maybe high for many personal tastes, is by no means high for an IPA."

Adding carapils/dextrin malt is basically akin to mashing high...so for shits & giggles let’s say 2% carapils increase in your mash bill is equivalent to 1F increase in your mash temp (that is totally made up). Basically you’re increasing dextrins in your wort.

My guess regarding the Briess process, is that the difference they employ regards post stewing, when the grain is in the final drying process. They will produce almost zero maillard & carmelization rxns. Again that is just a guess. I have met with Briess folks and talked shop with them...more about their malt extract process than carapils specifically, but i get the sense that they didn’t re-invent the wheel with their carapils product vs. say Weyermann’s.

Originally posted by telejunkie

Originally posted by BMan1113VR
Where did you read that? From several interviews with Vinnie I remember that PTE uses 1% Crystal and PTY uses 0.

Ruination most like uses the stated amount of crytal (as far as I know)

http://www.homebrewersassociation.org/pages/zymurgy/free-downloads

From the man himself...8.3% of grain bill, 7.9% of overall sugar content. I’m including both carapils & higher range cara malts.

Hmm, I was going by this: “Too much crystal malt muddies up the hop flavors, use lower % of crystal malts for a crisp, clean hop flavor. Crystal malt clashes with bitter hop flavors. 1% crystal malt in Elder, 0% crystal malt in Younger”- Vinnie Cilurzo, The Brewing Network 8/14/2005 2:01:37 ... (full credit to finding this quote goes to Nate Smith)

Originally posted by telejunkie

Originally posted by CLevar
But seriously aside from moving the hop additions to later in the boil, has anything come out of this thread?

Here was my summary from pg 4: "As to the original post...i hope we can all agree that 7% 30L that was posted in the original recipe, while maybe high for many personal tastes, is by no means high for an IPA."

Adding carapils/dextrin malt is basically akin to mashing high...so for shits & giggles let’s say 2% carapils increase in your mash bill is equivalent to 1F increase in your mash temp (that is totally made up). Basically you’re increasing dextrins in your wort.

My guess regarding the Briess process, is that the difference they employ regards post stewing, when the grain is in the final drying process. They will produce almost zero maillard & carmelization rxns. Again that is just a guess. I have met with Briess folks and talked shop with them...more about their malt extract process than carapils specifically, but i get the sense that they didn’t re-invent the wheel with their carapils product vs. say Weyermann’s.

When I was at Briess, they specifically told me that their carapils isn’t a caramel malt, but that Weyermann’s is essentially a pale caramel malt. I think it’s a fine line, but they feel that the production process is different enough to place the malt in another category.

Originally posted by BMan1113VR
“Too much crystal malt muddies up the hop flavors, use lower % of crystal malts for a crisp, clean hop flavor. Crystal malt clashes with bitter hop flavors. 1% crystal malt in Elder, 0% crystal malt in Younger”- Vinnie Cilurzo, The Brewing Network 8/14/2005 2:01:37 ... (full credit to finding this quote goes to Nate Smith)

That’s definitely one historical, highly popular interpretation of the IPA style. With all due respect to revered brewers, I still think essential aspects of IPAs are a matter of opinion and up for debate. I like trying IPAs as Vinnie Cilurzo described them, but sometimes when the only thing showcased is the hops, I find the effect one-dimensional, unbalanced, and borderline boring, no matter how meticulously brewed. I fashioned a 100+ IBU Imperial Red IPA recently with unconventionally high percentage of caramel, brown and roasted malts, tons of flowery/peppery Saaz aroma hops, and an earthy high-grav Scottish yeast. It turned out crazy good, and a type of balance I much prefer: malty complexity + hops complexity + yeast complexity, all cranked to 11. Certainly not a classic, true-to-style IPA, but it’s a great big yummy hoppy beer nonetheless. Arguments about naming constructs and malster methodologies aside, RateBeer is a forum celebrating imaginative craft brewing, dammit! Isn’t there room in the world for diverse recipe interpretations?

Originally posted by seymour
I fashioned a 100+ IBU Imperial Red IPA recently with unconventionally high percentage of caramel, brown and roasted malts, tons of flowery/peppery Saaz aroma hops, and an earthy high-grav Scottish yeast.

Sounds like diabetes.

It might’ve been, but I gave the yeast ideal temperature and nutrient conditions, so it attenuated nearly all the sugars away, slowly but surely. It’s malt-oriented, obviously, but nothing like cloying. The finish is surprisingly dry.

Anyway, we’ve certainly strayed from your original post, CLevar. To answer the specific question, that’s a beer I’d be thrilled to drink as is. I wish I could say I’ve tasted the Kern River you compared it to, but I haven’t.

I’d likely adapt a few minor aspects of your recipe to my brewing habits, some of which others have already stated: a slightly less warm or multi-step mash (I know, I know, it’s not necessary with modern modified malt, but I still prefer the outcome of giving each enzyme stage time to work independently, particularly when using the complex grainbills I describe), maybe a handful of special-B or roasted barley for some fruitiness and red tint (wholly inappropriate for an IPA, for shame!), maybe a handful of steel cut oats for body and head retention (what the what?!), and shift much of the hops bill to later aroma stages.