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Cycling. Bamberg; Salzburg, Rothenburg; Cologne


read 4042 times • 74 replies • posted 3/26/2013 8:36:43 AM

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harrisoni 12674:20
Originally posted by Dedollewaitor
Looking forward to hear about your trip , Ian. Doing a few of those places myself later this summer!


OK, will keep some notes and post them on here when I get back or as I go, depending on wifi availability.
5/15/2013 12:55:22 PM

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Erlangernick 1:2
It does sound as if Ianís enjoying himself, based on reports of a happy Briton touring the Bierkeller(s) Iíve been hearing, anyway.
5/19/2013 2:30:14 AM

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Erlangernick 1:2
Ian is doing well. Amazingly well today, at least, given the progress heís made by the Time I caught up with him in Buttemheim. Wet now though...
5/19/2013 8:35:51 AM

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3fourths 7799:1271
ugh, Kreuzberg keller hallerndorf was a shitshow. this was on Saturday, it wasnít very packed, but still had a dirty DisneyLand feeling with loud kids running around and really awful beer from Kreuzberg. thankfully the Lieberth and Rittmayer kellers are up there as well, but I donít see the draw in sitting around with so many people in a setting like that. very un-chill. also the food did not look so good, a lot of pizza and currywurst and frites. there was smoked fish at least. a much better time was had on the other side of the hill at Roppelt Keller, and their beer was pretty damn kick ass as well. my recommendation to anyone coming to the area is to leave the hilltop kellers and the terrible Kreuzberg beer to the crowds and sit at Dorfkeller Lieberth (Hallerndorf) and Roppelt (Stiebarlimbach) for sessions, where the beer is much better and the setting much more pleasant.
5/19/2013 3:12:15 PM

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Erlangernick 1:2
Originally posted by 3fourths
ugh, Kreuzberg keller hallerndorf was a shitshow. this was on Saturday, it wasnít very packed, but still had a dirty DisneyLand feeling with loud kids running around and really awful beer from Kreuzberg. thankfully the Lieberth and Rittmayer kellers are up there as well, but I donít see the draw in sitting around with so many people in a setting like that. very un-chill. also the food did not look so good, a lot of pizza and currywurst and frites. there was smoked fish at least. a much better time was had on the other side of the hill at Roppelt Keller, and their beer was pretty damn kick ass as well. my recommendation to anyone coming to the area is to leave the hilltop kellers and the terrible Kreuzberg beer to the crowds and sit at Dorfkeller Lieberth (Hallerndorf) and Roppelt (Stiebarlimbach) for sessions, where the beer is much better and the setting much more pleasant.


Pity you didnít post this last week, or you couldíve saved poor Ian the trouble of climbing that bloody hill!

Seriously, donít you think youíre exaggerating a bit with "shitstorm" and "dirty Disneyland", let alone "really awful beer"? The only time Iíve had really awful beer there was years ago, before they (Friedel of Schnaid) built the new Brauhaus. It used to be brewed in Schnaid and then lagered / poured at the old Friedelís Keller, and it was often *sour*.

The new beers are not so much traditional Franconian, but there have been some good not-so-NON-traditional once like the Schlotfegerla (smokey Schwarzbier) and the old Zwickel, darker than most Zwickelbier(s). And his Bock(s) have been good. And once in a while, he brews a low-gravity lager with real, actual flavour, unlike typical German Leichtbier. And thatís what I look for when I go up there.

Speaking of which, living a 65 minute bike ride away, I get to that area probably twice a week on average between May and October. "That area" being, of course, Stiebarlimbach at the foot of the hill. Iíll bother with the Kreuzberg maybe 3 or 4 times a year, maybe once or twice more later in fall when Roppeltís have already closed up and thereís a low-gravity beer on. Or when I meet someone up there from out of town or out of the country. IOW, Roppeltís it is!

People love to hate Friedelís Brauhaus am Kreuzberg, because it is so new, large, and non-traditional. The current generation of the Friedel family is Mrs. Friedel, married to Norbert Winkelmann, who invested a fortune in building the new place, to live his dream of operating a great big kitchen, microbrewery, and distillery. Karpfen can be quite good (carp), but otherwise itís not my place to eat. But then I donít go for Brauhaus fare any more anyway, and find the likes of the DŁsseldorfer Altbier houses to be cafeteria-esque in quality, FWIW.

Thereís a lot of animosity between Friedel and the other two Keller(s) up there, because of the "foreign" money invested (Norbert comes from distant Erlangen!) and how itís changed the atmosphere up there. Fair enough. Itís something different, and if having something different ruins someoneís vacation visit, then thatís unfortunate.

Roppelt gets a lot of criticism as well FWIW, for being too large, having too much hot food, and attracting too many "strangers" -- again, people from Erlangen and NŁrnberg.

I heartily, heartily recommend the Kreuzberg, because it is pretty much a one-of-a-kind experience: three Bierkeller(s) next to each other on top of a wooded hill in the countryside with a 500 year old pilgrimís church. Yes, itís crowded on weekends, and should be avoided then, esPECially Sundays.
5/20/2013 2:40:11 AM

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Erlangernick 1:2
Roppeltís Keller and Lieberthís Dorfkeller get heaving on weekends too, FWIW, so not sure what to say about not wanting to sit around with so many people in a lovely setting. I mean, thereís nothing special about the Kreuzberg in this regard. AFA kids running around, look for that anywhere too.

I led a group of 35 Yanks on a bus tour of a few breweries in the area a couple of years ago, on one day of their 10-day(?) visit. The word from the group leader later was the Brauhaus am Kreuzberg was the near-unanimous favourite of the entire trip. No accounting for taste, I guess!

5/20/2013 2:40:47 AM

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3fourths 7799:1271
Nick, I didnít intend my comments to be a criticism of your recommendations for Ian. I think you read too much into what I said since you consider yourself a guide for this area. I apologize if my words came across as criticism of you, they were not. however, I realize now that you and I have very different ideas of what a pleasant setting is in Franconia, and itís likely our taste is beer is very different as well. I stand by my words about Kreuzberg being a crowded, dingy, noisy, tourist-trap, very uncomfortable and full of kids, and to top it all off, the beers I tried were in terrible shape. Kreuzberg so far was the worst beer I have found out in the countryside. Rittmayer and Lieberth beer are quite good, but those can be found elsewhere in a more pleasant setting.
5/20/2013 2:28:55 PM

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Erlangernick 1:2
Originally posted by 3fourths
Nick, I didnít intend my comments to be a criticism of your recommendations for Ian. I think you read too much into what I said since you consider yourself a guide for this area. I apologize if my words came across as criticism of you, they were not. however, I realize now that you and I have very different ideas of what a pleasant setting is in Franconia, and itís likely our taste is beer is very different as well. I stand by my words about Kreuzberg being a crowded, dingy, noisy, tourist-trap, very uncomfortable and full of kids, and to top it all off, the beers I tried were in terrible shape. Kreuzberg so far was the worst beer I have found out in the countryside. Rittmayer and Lieberth beer are quite good, but those can be found elsewhere in a more pleasant setting.


Donít read too much into what I write! I donít consider myself a guide, rather, just lucky enough to live here (*) and have enough time to pursue my interests in things beer. And enough time to post about things once in a while, too wordily at times. Iím glad to help people visiting the area benefit from things Iíve learned.

Looking back on my last post, yeah, it comes across as defensive, I suppose. But donít read too much into that. I certainly didnít take your post as criticism of me or anything! I would just hate to have someone come across this thread whilst trip-planning and decide to avoid the place because a superuser of this site didnít like it. And I thought a bit of background on the animosity between the places might be of interest.

Also shouldíve mentioned that I canít recall ever encountering anyone down at the Roppelt Keller who did *not* share your view of the Friedel Brauhaus, FWIW. Itís a flippiní schism!

We seem to agree on Edelstoff though, and thatís all that matters, isnít it?

AFA what a pleasant Franconian setting is, no, I think we do agree: the Kreuzberg on weekends ist ScheiŖe! Try it again on a pleasant weekday afternoon, maybe?

We should probably meet one time youíre here, right? Iím not as much of an Arschloch in person. Or at least let me know before youíre coming and see if I can point you to any place you havenít heard of before.

(*Lucky enough, despite the beer, that is.)
5/20/2013 11:38:10 PM

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gunnar 4867:324
Thanks for good advices everybody, very helpful in my planning for a 3 day trip in early june, will arrive in Bamberg on the 3 and will rent a bike for a day trip, route as suggested by 3fourths.
5/21/2013 2:47:37 AM

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t0rin0 62:1180
Important question: have you found a place to deadlift yet?
5/21/2013 11:23:17 AM

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