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Guinness


read 4081 times • 57 replies • posted 1/29/2011 4:33:51 AM

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SilkTork 5277:82
Originally posted by Gazza
Originally posted by SilkTork
The main problem is that it is generally served too cold, so the flavour doesnít come through

Thereís a good reason itís served so cold - the flavour is putrid.

When in Dublin a few years back watching a band I had a pint of Guinness for curiosities sake and, predictably, it was pretty awful - although Iíd been drinking Wrasslers previously so just about anything would taste like piss after that.

I forgot about it and only remembered when the band had finished so took a gulp... all I can say is Iíve never had my tongue ripped out by harsh astringent hops that much in years, and the roast flavour was almost absent and, instead, it tasted of metallic caramel.

Disgusting swill, and I shanít be drinking any next weekend when I go scooping Eire craft beer in Dublin!!!


Wrasslers is a bit stronger than Guinness (and there is a very definite tendency for people to rate stouts higher the stronger they are), but is essentially the same recipe though takes its name from Deasyís Clonakilty Wrestler, the beer that Michael Collins was drinking the day he was shot. Porterhouse have worked fairly hard to find a yeast that behaves the same way as Guinness, and to use similar proportions of flaked barley and roast barley. Interestingly, Porterhouse use Crystal Malt which Guinness do not - so perhaps itís the use of Crystal Malt that you enjoy?

There are other differences though. Both filter the beer, but Guinness pasteurise. Generally some staling of the hops occurs with pasteurising, and it may be that staling you have noticed.

Guinness also use isomerized hops, which is to increase bitterness levels. Guinness is more bitter than the main Irish Stouts - people who donít like such bitterness tend to prefer Murphyís or Beamish - in fact they are advertised as being less bitter.

Your preference of Wrassler over Draught could be a combination of Guinness being more bitter than Wrassler through use of more bittering hops. Wrassler being sweeter through using Crystal Malt, fresher tasting because itís not pasteurised, and fuller bodied because itís 5% compared to Draught being 4.1%

With those thoughts in mind, perhaps Guinness Extra Stout might be closer to your taste, and also Guinness Foreign Extra Stout and in particular the Nigerian version which is not pasteurised.
2/4/2011 2:46:05 AM

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dynamiteninja 1590:50
Originally posted by SilkTork
Originally posted by Gazza
Originally posted by SilkTork
The main problem is that it is generally served too cold, so the flavour doesnít come through

Thereís a good reason itís served so cold - the flavour is putrid.

When in Dublin a few years back watching a band I had a pint of Guinness for curiosities sake and, predictably, it was pretty awful - although Iíd been drinking Wrasslers previously so just about anything would taste like piss after that.

I forgot about it and only remembered when the band had finished so took a gulp... all I can say is Iíve never had my tongue ripped out by harsh astringent hops that much in years, and the roast flavour was almost absent and, instead, it tasted of metallic caramel.

Disgusting swill, and I shanít be drinking any next weekend when I go scooping Eire craft beer in Dublin!!!


Wrasslers is a bit stronger than Guinness (and there is a very definite tendency for people to rate stouts higher the stronger they are), but is essentially the same recipe though takes its name from Deasyís Clonakilty Wrestler, the beer that Michael Collins was drinking the day he was shot. Porterhouse have worked fairly hard to find a yeast that behaves the same way as Guinness, and to use similar proportions of flaked barley and roast barley. Interestingly, Porterhouse use Crystal Malt which Guinness do not - so perhaps itís the use of Crystal Malt that you enjoy?

There are other differences though. Both filter the beer, but Guinness pasteurise. Generally some staling of the hops occurs with pasteurising, and it may be that staling you have noticed.

Guinness also use isomerized hops, which is to increase bitterness levels. Guinness is more bitter than the main Irish Stouts - people who donít like such bitterness tend to prefer Murphyís or Beamish - in fact they are advertised as being less bitter.

Your preference of Wrassler over Draught could be a combination of Guinness being more bitter than Wrassler through use of more bittering hops. Wrassler being sweeter through using Crystal Malt, fresher tasting because itís not pasteurised, and fuller bodied because itís 5% compared to Draught being 4.1%

With those thoughts in mind, perhaps Guinness Extra Stout might be closer to your taste, and also Guinness Foreign Extra Stout and in particular the Nigerian version which is not pasteurised.



This is interesting. Do Guinness still use a proportion of aged or soured beer in Guinness to give it those lovely sour notes?
2/4/2011 4:00:38 AM

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bobinlondon 1257:12
What lovely sour notes?
2/4/2011 4:08:55 AM

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Gary 1466:3
Guinness is like one of those Slush Puppie drinks I used to have as a kid in the 80s.
2/4/2011 4:54:01 AM

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Gazza 726:163
Originally posted by SilkTork
Wrasslers is a bit stronger than Guinness (and there is a very definite tendency for people to rate stouts higher the stronger they are)

Itís also a much better beer, unpasteurised, full of flavour and actually tastes of roast barley not brasso mixed with caramel!

Originally posted by SilkTork
but is essentially the same recipe

I donít think theyíre that similar, really... for a start, Guinness doesnít have crystal or wheat malt in it and Porterhouse use American bittering hops. Apart from being stouts, theyíve not got a great deal in common IMO.

Originally posted by SilkTork
and to use similar proportions of flaked barley and roast barley.

... as Guinness used to, Iíll finish that sentence. Thereís no way, IMO, Guinness is all roast for colour/flavour these days.

Originally posted by SilkTork
Interestingly, Porterhouse use Crystal Malt which Guinness do not - so perhaps itís the use of Crystal Malt that you enjoy?

No, itís the flavour of Wrasslers I enjoy .

Originally posted by SilkTork
Both filter the beer, but Guinness pasteurise, some staling of the hops occurs with pasteurising, and it may be that staling you have noticed. Guinness also use isomerized hops

With stouts itís very difficult to taste pasteurisation but the last bit tells me all I guessed... they use hop extracts of, I assume, cheap crappy very high alpha/high cohumulone hops which are simply raspingly bitter with no hop flavour or other flavour contribution. Bitterness isnít always the same, using the wrong bittering hops such as in this example doesnít make for pleasant drinking IMO.

Originally posted by SilkTork
Guinness also use isomerized hops, which is to increase bitterness levels.

Iíd say they use hop extracts because theyíre cheap myself.

Originally posted by SilkTork
Your preference of Wrassler over Draught could be a combination of Guinness being more bitter than Wrassler through use of more bittering hops. Wrassler being sweeter through using Crystal Malt, fresher tasting because itís not pasteurised, and fuller bodied because itís 5% compared to Draught being 4.1%

Steve, I really hope youíre not intending to be as patronising as youíre coming across here and are having a big laugh...

But, if not, WTF? Guinness is a harshly bitter (through cheap hops), metallic, caramelly and pretty much a parody of what it used to be whilst Wrasslers is a delicious full-bodied stout with a good bitterness level (it actually tastes more hoppy and bitter than Guinness but in a nice way) with huge roast character. The two are about as different as you can get in Irish stout, I prefer Wrasslers because it TASTES FECKIN LOVELY and not industrially-made.

Originally posted by SilkTork
With those thoughts in mind, perhaps Guinness Extra Stout might be closer to your taste, and also Guinness Foreign Extra Stout and in particular the Nigerian version which is not pasteurised.

Erm.. no, not a big fan of FES, either, itís a lot better but still has that harsh metallic industrial bitterness which I donít like at all whilst Nigerian (sure itís unpasteurised?) is just bizarre and the last few I had were the last Iíll buy as itís not bizarre in a nice way...

As I said, I really hope youíre taking the piss here...
2/4/2011 10:39:20 AM

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FatPhil 9618:307
Originally posted by Fin
Originally posted by FatPhil
Originally posted by dynamiteninja
Until relatively recently the Guinness Original in the UK was bottle-conditioned and until very recently the Guinness Original in Ireland was bottle-conditioned. <sighs wistfully>


I seem to remember BC guiness, in the tiny (284ml?) bottles, disappearing some time in the late 80s. I wouldnít consider that particularly recently.


Are you sure? Iím with the Ninja man on this, I thought BC Guinness disappeared much more recently than that, I havenít had it for many years Iíll admit but surely it went on well into the nineties.


Iím not completely sure, no. Iím trying to remember which pub and what period in my life it was, and Iím pretty sure it was while I was in N.W. London, drunk almost certainly at The Vine in Stanmore. That would date it to 1993, absolute latest. Anyone claiming to have finished them off left *plenty* for me, it was my regular tipple then. And one I didnít actually drink them out of. I just remember rumours (I was off-and-on CAMRA in those days, that may have been the source) that it was being phased out, hence my determination to drink it as long as I could. I remember it in particular as there was some anti-EU bunk going around that because it was BC it was not of reliable enough consistency, and therefore the EU wouldnít let it be sold. (This is the EU based in Belgium?!?!) I didnít care for the politics so I didnít investigate the verity of that rumour, but I do concretely remember its existence.
2/4/2011 12:14:52 PM

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FatPhil 9618:307
Originally posted by Gazza
Disgusting swill, and I shanít be drinking any next weekend when I go scooping Eire craft beer in Dublin!!!


Please do a thorough write-up, and post a URL here!
2/4/2011 12:17:11 PM

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FatPhil 9618:307
Originally posted by SilkTork
Your preference of Wrassler over Draught


Anyone else narked by the word "draught"? Itís not drawn from anywhere, itís pushed by nitro pressure. Itís not draught. (Than again, neitherís gravity dispense, my favourite method of getting beer from a cask.)
2/4/2011 12:20:03 PM

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Gazza 726:163
Originally posted by FatPhil
Please do a thorough write-up, and post a URL here!

Will do.

I always thought Eire was going to take off but the new breweries seemed to close down after a few years, hopefully not this time though as it seems thereís a load of new bars and shops selling the stuff; that was always the issue before, no way to sell their beer, looks like now thereís a real and growing demand for micro-brewed beer over there.

On topic of places re-discovering their beer love...

http://www.scoopergen.co.uk/scoopingabroadspaincatalunya.htm

Have a look at that, Barcelona is going mad for it at present.
2/4/2011 1:00:01 PM

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SamGamgee99
I they in fact are using isomerized pellets, that could account for the harshness. Extracts are much better if you arenít going to use real hops in your beer. And if they really just want bitterness with no other hop flavors, then extracts are perfectly fine. There are a lot of good beers over in the US that are made with extracts.

The thing with stouts is that you really need to drink better ones to know what you are missing. Real malt flavors, real roasted barley flavors. A lot of people just drink Guinness and lagers and have no idea how good stouts can be. They just know that the one they drink is GUINNESS and is therefore a perfect 5.
2/4/2011 2:13:18 PM

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