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Hair of the Dog Dave Clone

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OldSock
08:50 Tue 6/2/2009

From the same idiot who made the Cable Car clone.

Making some Dave seemed like the only reasonable thing to do with some of my Adam clone. The freeze concentration only got it up to ~22% ABV, but that is still pretty good I guess. Now I just need to hold onto the (2) bottles for a decade or so...

Full write-up and pictures of the process: http://madfermentationist.blogspot.com/2009/06/eisadam-hotd-dave-clone.html

 
JoeMcPhee
premium
beers 9004 º places 529 º 09:01 Tue 6/2/2009

I don’t really understand why you think he’s an idiot, but as with Dave, there’s no way those are the correct ABVs. It’s a cool experiment, either way.

 
gunhaver
beers 1030 º places 13 º 09:08 Tue 6/2/2009

Originally posted by JoeMcPhee
I donít really understand why you think heís an idiot, but as with Dave, thereís no way those are the correct ABVs. Itís a cool experiment, either way.

the idiot is coincidentally also the guy who created this thread

 
OldSock
09:09 Tue 6/2/2009

Originally posted by JoeMcPhee
I donít really understand why you think heís an idiot, but as with Dave, thereís no way those are the correct ABVs. Itís a cool experiment, either way.


I’m the same guy who did the cable car clone (that is to say I am an idiot who spends hours making clones of obscure beers).

Why do you say the abv isn’t correct?

 
JoeMcPhee
premium
beers 9004 º places 529 º 09:39 Tue 6/2/2009

Originally posted by OldSock
Originally posted by JoeMcPhee
I donít really understand why you think heís an idiot, but as with Dave, thereís no way those are the correct ABVs. Itís a cool experiment, either way.


Iím the same guy who did the cable car clone (that is to say I am an idiot who spends hours making clones of obscure beers).

Why do you say the abv isnít correct?

You can’t measure ABV in these high alcohol beers my measuring OG/FG... it’s been well discussed here in the past. Even the ABV on a beer over 9-10% will be out by a significant amount.

 
TheBeerSommelier
premium
09:43 Tue 6/2/2009

Originally posted by JoeMcPhee
Originally posted by OldSock
Originally posted by JoeMcPhee
I donít really understand why you think heís an idiot, but as with Dave, thereís no way those are the correct ABVs. Itís a cool experiment, either way.


Iím the same guy who did the cable car clone (that is to say I am an idiot who spends hours making clones of obscure beers).

Why do you say the abv isnít correct?

You canít measure ABV in these high alcohol beers my measuring OG/FG... itís been well discussed here in the past. Even the ABV on a beer over 9-10% will be out by a significant amount.


You don’t measure them purely by OG/FG - only to a point. After that, they’re measured by volume of water removed and calculated accordingly.

 
OldSock
10:21 Tue 6/2/2009

Originally posted by TheBeerSommelier
Originally posted by JoeMcPhee
You canít measure ABV in these high alcohol beers my measuring OG/FG... itís been well discussed here in the past. Even the ABV on a beer over 9-10% will be out by a significant amount.


You donít measure them purely by OG/FG - only to a point. After that, theyíre measured by volume of water removed and calculated accordingly.


Exactly, I did not base this ABV calculation on measuring the gravity of wort above 1.100.

The beer originally was ~10% ABV (OG 1.099, FG 1.023). With the two freezings I removed slightly more than 50% of the volume (the gravity of the ice removed was under 1.005, so not much sugar/alcohol was lost). If I cut the volume by more than half by taking out 99% water, that should approximately double the alcohol (and dextrin) content.

The approximate doubling of the alcohol is confirmed by the fact that the FG more than doubled to 1.050. This means that the ABV would be 50/23 x 10% = 21.7%.

On top of the math, from a flavor perspective I got the alcohol burn right on the tongue more than in the back of the throat (even though I sampled the beer at pretty cold). That type of burn is something I associate with liquor/liqueurs more than even something like World Wide Stout.

Iím not saying I am positive that there is exactly 22% ABV in this beer, but all of the methods I have for determining the alcohol agree that it is in that ballpark.

 
JoeMcPhee
premium
beers 9004 º places 529 º 10:25 Tue 6/2/2009

Originally posted by TheBeerSommelier
Originally posted by JoeMcPhee
Originally posted by OldSock
Originally posted by JoeMcPhee
I donít really understand why you think heís an idiot, but as with Dave, thereís no way those are the correct ABVs. Itís a cool experiment, either way.


Iím the same guy who did the cable car clone (that is to say I am an idiot who spends hours making clones of obscure beers).

Why do you say the abv isnít correct?

You canít measure ABV in these high alcohol beers my measuring OG/FG... itís been well discussed here in the past. Even the ABV on a beer over 9-10% will be out by a significant amount.


You donít measure them purely by OG/FG - only to a point. After that, theyíre measured by volume of water removed and calculated accordingly.

yeah, but freezing removes some alcohol as well, which lowers the SG of the removed portion. I’m not saying they aren’t okay approximations, I’m just saying they aren’t completely correct and can be out by 5% ABV or more.

 
puzzl
beers 3257 º places 138 º 11:07 Tue 6/2/2009

Originally posted by TheBeerSommelier
Originally posted by JoeMcPhee
Originally posted by OldSock
Originally posted by JoeMcPhee
I donít really understand why you think heís an idiot, but as with Dave, thereís no way those are the correct ABVs. Itís a cool experiment, either way.


Iím the same guy who did the cable car clone (that is to say I am an idiot who spends hours making clones of obscure beers).

Why do you say the abv isnít correct?

You canít measure ABV in these high alcohol beers my measuring OG/FG... itís been well discussed here in the past. Even the ABV on a beer over 9-10% will be out by a significant amount.


You donít measure them purely by OG/FG - only to a point. After that, theyíre measured by volume of water removed and calculated accordingly.


The problem is that it isn’t only water frozen off at all, especially in those quantities, which should be apparent to anyone who tries drinking some of the runoff.

This would actually be a good time for an experiment, though it’s probably too late: OldSock, do you still have the frozen out solution? Drink a pint of it and try to guess the alcohol content by how drunk you get, then let us know

 
OldSock
11:35 Tue 6/2/2009

Originally posted by puzzl
The problem is that it isnít only water frozen off at all, especially in those quantities, which should be apparent to anyone who tries drinking some of the runoff.

This would actually be a good time for an experiment, though itís probably too late: OldSock, do you still have the frozen out solution? Drink a pint of it and try to guess the alcohol content by how drunk you get, then let us know


Originally posted by JoeMcPhee
yeah, but freezing removes some alcohol as well, which lowers the SG of the removed portion. Iím not saying they arenít okay approximations, Iím just saying they arenít completely correct and can be out by 5% ABV or more.


Ah, but I can control for loss of alcohol to the ice.

For the first round of freezing I removed 50% as ice with a gravity of ~1.004 at 32 degrees (which corrects to about 1.003). So it got about 6.5% (3/23 = .13, .13/2 = 6.5%) of the alcohol/sugars and the concentrated portion got ~93.5%.

Since I reduced the volume by ~50%, and assuming 93.5% of the alcohol/sugars made it into the concentrated portion, that still puts it at ~18.7% ABV.

The second freeze neither removed as much ice nor was said ice as white. I did not take a gravity reading of this frozen portion so I can’t be sure, but it would not take much to get it over 20%.

 
JoeMcPhee
premium
beers 9004 º places 529 º 11:54 Tue 6/2/2009

Originally posted by OldSock
Originally posted by puzzl
The problem is that it isnít only water frozen off at all, especially in those quantities, which should be apparent to anyone who tries drinking some of the runoff.

This would actually be a good time for an experiment, though itís probably too late: OldSock, do you still have the frozen out solution? Drink a pint of it and try to guess the alcohol content by how drunk you get, then let us know


Originally posted by JoeMcPhee
yeah, but freezing removes some alcohol as well, which lowers the SG of the removed portion. Iím not saying they arenít okay approximations, Iím just saying they arenít completely correct and can be out by 5% ABV or more.


Ah, but I can control for loss of alcohol to the ice.

For the first round of freezing I removed 50% as ice with a gravity of ~1.004 at 32 degrees (which corrects to about 1.003). So it got about 6.5% (3/23 = .13, .13/2 = 6.5%) of the alcohol/sugars and the concentrated portion got ~93.5%.

Since I reduced the volume by ~50%, and assuming 93.5% of the alcohol/sugars made it into the concentrated portion, that still puts it at ~18.7% ABV.

The second freeze neither removed as much ice nor was said ice as white. I did not take a gravity reading of this frozen portion so I canít be sure, but it would not take much to get it over 20%.

No, because ethanol has a density of 0.789 while a sugar solution has a density greater than 1.000, so when you measure the density of the solution, you’re measuring the average of both at the same time.

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