Sanitization for sour ales

Reads 867 • Replies 10 • Started Sunday, July 29, 2012 8:45:36 AM CT

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fleetwoodfba
08:45 Sun 7/29/2012

Im adding blueberies and oak to a sour ale and Iím curious if I need to worry about it.

 
nathanjohnson
08:55 Sun 7/29/2012

No.

 
DA
places 1 º 08:56 Sun 7/29/2012

No, just wash the fruit, no need to sanitize the fruit. Worry more about oxygen introduction.

 
fleetwoodfba
09:58 Sun 7/29/2012

Thanks

 
HornyDevil
06:45 Mon 7/30/2012

Originally posted by DA
Worry more about oxygen introduction.


I would agree, but only sort of.

All you need to do to brew good sour/funky beer is follow normal brewing procedures for everything and then bulk age. Bulk aging is the only real difference and with that the permeability of your vessel will dictate how much oxygen introduction that you get. Oxygen, however, is something that is necessary for sour ale development. Slow introduction of oxygen, but introduction none-the-less.

 
DA
places 1 º 08:14 Mon 7/30/2012

True, but thatís more micro-oxygenation dictaged just by fermentaion vessle. I was more cautioning against larger scale aeration while adding to fruit which would lead to more acetic acid production from the brett referment of the fruit, is that correct?

 
HornyDevil
08:32 Mon 7/30/2012

Originally posted by DA
True, but thatís more micro-oxygenation dictaged just by fermentaion vessle. I was more cautioning against larger scale aeration while adding to fruit which would lead to more acetic acid production from the brett referment of the fruit, is that correct?


Correct, indeed.

 
NobleSquirrel
beers 3439 º places 209 º 08:35 Mon 7/30/2012

Originally posted by HornyDevil
Originally posted by DA
Worry more about oxygen introduction.


I would agree, but only sort of.

All you need to do to brew good sour/funky beer is follow normal brewing procedures for everything and then bulk age. Bulk aging is the only real difference and with that the permeability of your vessel will dictate how much oxygen introduction that you get. Oxygen, however, is something that is necessary for sour ale development. Slow introduction of oxygen, but introduction none-the-less.


Source? Oxygen contributes to acetic acid development. I havenít read anything stating the importance of O2 in any other acid development. In fact, the purpose of the pellicle is to prevent 02 introduction...

 
HornyDevil
09:18 Mon 7/30/2012

Originally posted by NobleSquirrel
Source?


I donít have one, but why else would you age a beer for years that has already fully attenuated?

Originally posted by NobleSquirrel
Oxygen contributes to acetic acid development. I havenít read anything stating the importance of O2 in any other acid development. In fact, the purpose of the pellicle is to prevent 02 introduction...


Never said it had to do with acid development. The Brett and bacteria have done the vast majority of their job in the first couple months of fermentation.

I will certainly look for a source, but I have no doubt that the sour/lambic character that develops, while having a lot to do with the chemicals produced by Brettanomyces and lactic bacteria, also has a lot to do with those and other chemicals being oxidized to a small degree. Again, if not, why bulk age a fully attenuated beer in an oxygen permeable vessel?

 
Unclerudy
beers 12 º places 3 º 10:04 Mon 7/30/2012

According to Jamil, he says that the oxygen permiability of a plastic bucket is optimal for bulk aging of sour beers. That one year in a plastic bucket gives a great sour characteristic, without any of the harsh acetic flavors. Also remember that the pellicle is only on the surface of the beer, and the beer is no good until it gets ísickí and falls out and looks ropey. After that time, the only thing that is preventing drinking is the aging process, and how much other character you want introduced into the beer.

 
HornyDevil
11:29 Mon 7/30/2012

Originally posted by Unclerudy
According to Jamil, he says that the oxygen permiability of a plastic bucket is optimal for bulk aging of sour beers. That one year in a plastic bucket gives a great sour characteristic, without any of the harsh acetic flavors. Also remember that the pellicle is only on the surface of the beer, and the beer is no good until it gets ísickí and falls out and looks ropey. After that time, the only thing that is preventing drinking is the aging process, and how much other character you want introduced into the beer.


Plastic buckets definitely allow more oxygen than either barrels or carboys.

Wild brews by Jeff Sparrow gives the following numbers for oxygen diffusion per liter per year:

Plastic bucket: 220
Carboy w/ silcon stopper: 17
Wine barrel: 8.5

I believe Iíve cited this before and at that time was not aware of the units used either. If I had to guess, Iíd have to say milliliters would be the correct unit, but Iíd just be guessing. Either way it simply shows the relative permeability of the different vessels and as most commercial breweries producing sour beer in the US are using wine barrels, it is a good case in point.

I think it is also a good study that can be used to point out why there are a lot of differences between the products put forth by traditional lambic brewers and those made by the new sour beer producers as most of the traditional producers use very large tuns/foeders which let in only about a tenth of the oxygen of what wine barrels do.


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