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Simple Saison

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lithy
beers 2996 º places 156 º 15:54 Thu 5/3/2012

Just looking for some thoughts if anyone has any to help this brew out. Doing a Saison with 3724.

Iíve got a yeast prop going with some dunkel wort (not my first choice obviously but just how the schedule worked out) that should be about 10% of the total final volume. The dunkel has some munich malt in it already (about 10% of grist), which is fine, but also has a little bit of caramel malts (probably 5%).

So with that in mind, here is what I worked up.

85% Weyermann Pilsner
8% Weyermann Wheat Pale
7% Refined Cane Sugar

Normally Iíd leave the sugar out, but with the caramel malts, I guess I just thought it would help to dry it out some more.

Thinking Iíll add some citric acid to lower the mash pH. Any other salts that are important in saison brewing?

I donít know what Iím doing about hops. I have some Hallertauer Tradition, Spalt Select, and Aurora that I think might be useful. Also have Glacier and Crystal if those might be any use.

Aiming for about 16 plato, planning on fermenting in the low to mid 80s. Does anyone have any thoughts about how long the primary has to stay this warm? Our basement cellar is still pretty cool despite these past few 85 degree days, and once the initially active fermentation slows, Iím concerned it will cool down too much.

Thanks in advance for any help or ideas.

 
JoeinDahlem
premium
beers 1378 º places 305 º 16:06 Thu 5/3/2012

Just my $0.02, as long as youíre not trying to clone something specific, I think that could be a fine grain bill, Dunkel wort at all (which might add some complexity.) If your caramel malt is 5% of that 10% (i.e. 0.5% of total wort) then I donít think you have to add sugar... but thereís nothing wrong with it, either.

What yeast strain? IMO a lot of people buy too much into the warm temp thing, but it depends on the strain.

 
lithy
beers 2996 º places 156 º 16:08 Thu 5/3/2012

Wyeast 3724 is the Dupont yeast strain.

 
BBB63
premium
beers 6474 º places 145 º 16:11 Thu 5/3/2012

The Hallertauer and/or Spalt hops would be great choices.

 
BBB63
premium
beers 6474 º places 145 º 16:12 Thu 5/3/2012

Originally posted by JoeinEscazķ
Just my $0.02, as long as youíre not trying to clone something specific, I think that could be a fine grain bill, Dunkel wort at all (which might add some complexity.) If your caramel malt is 5% of that 10% (i.e. 0.5% of total wort) then I donít think you have to add sugar... but thereís nothing wrong with it, either.


agreed

 
OldStyleCubFan
premium
beers 77 º places 15 º 16:20 Thu 5/3/2012

I hate 3724...its a PITA to work with. You kind of need a late round of heat for that yeast to finish. If its not too late, I highly recommend the French Saison yeast over 3724.

 
Gription79
premium
beers 2653 º places 51 º 18:01 Thu 5/3/2012

3724 can be tough. In my experience as long as you can hold your temp above 65 you should be fine. Keep rousing the yeast to aid in fermentation, and plan on this yeast taking over a week to fully ferment your wort. You could make any of those hops work in a Saison, it really depends on what flavor and aroma you are looking for. If you mash in the high 140ís you wonít need the sugar to dry out your beer, if you mash in the 150ís I would then use the sugar.

 
lithy
beers 2996 º places 156 º 18:53 Thu 5/3/2012

Originally posted by Gription79
3724 can be tough. In my experience as long as you can hold your temp above 65 you should be fine. Keep rousing the yeast to aid in fermentation, and plan on this yeast taking over a week to fully ferment your wort. You could make any of those hops work in a Saison, it really depends on what flavor and aroma you are looking for. If you mash in the high 140ís you wonít need the sugar to dry out your beer, if you mash in the 150ís I would then use the sugar.


Glad to hear this, I should be able to manage 80+ easily for at least a couple days at the beginning of fermentation, it is beyond day 5 that I think Iíll be back down to the low 70s high 60s.

Thanks for all the support and advice, Iíve used the Tradition before so I have a reasonable idea of how they taste, so I think I want to lean toward trying out Spalt Select. Will update with how things turn out.

 
lithy
beers 2996 º places 156 º 11:07 Fri 5/4/2012

So what sort of hopping schedule does every like to shoot for in their saisons? I ended up making this pretty hoppy I think, hoping not too hoppy but everything was heavy on the back end so should be much more flavor than bittering.

If I scale back to 5gal, my hopping schedule looked something like this.

1/8oz 8% Spalt Select at boil
1/4oz 8% Spalt Select at 15
1.7oz 8% Spalt Select at flameout

I calculated that I should be around 35-40 IBU depending on my utilization.

This is according to the formulas we use at work, IBU calculation is something I still donít understand as BeerSmith gives me totally different numbers and most every place I look says 0 utilization at end of boil, but we calculate 12-15%.

 
lithy
beers 2996 º places 156 º 11:09 Fri 5/4/2012

By the way, I ended up using the sugar mostly because I wanted to add a little more volume, everything went smoothly hit 15 plato, 85 degrees into the fermenter, will check in a little while and hopefully see some action.

 
joet
premium
admin
beers 2409 º places 100 º 11:19 Fri 5/4/2012

Originally posted by lithy
By the way, I ended up using the sugar mostly because I wanted to add a little more volume, everything went smoothly hit 15 plato, 85 degrees into the fermenter, will check in a little while and hopefully see some action.


Sounds perfect. I want some. :-)

Yay for keeping the yeast choice. A dupont-loving saison brewer not going with 3724 is like a bicycle builder deciding they need a third wheel to keep the machine from falling over.

Warm temps and yeast nutrient. No worries. Wanting to do my summer saison soon too. Lots of chamomille still outside.

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