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Question about Veritas 011


read 343 times • 7 replies • posted 2/13/2013 2:10:08 PM

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Cletus 6354:233
According to the commercial description:

Veritas 011 is a Barleywine aged in McCall Cognac Barrels for 11 months. We added some fresh nectarines over the summer and hit it with a splash of Brett Clausenii.

It is not sour and may only develop a bit a fruity Brett qualities over time, so we arenít expecting a full blown sour ale. ABV is 12.85%.


For those of you familiar with Brett Clausenii, what type of character, if any, will this particular stain impart on this beer over time? At what point will this beer "peak"?
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GT2 8427:598
Iíve had Veritas 11 and the Box Set Track series version of it, and there was no Brett C character, which imparts pineapple and peach flavors. There is literal nectarines in that one, so it could be misleading to think you are getting Brett C. My guess is that the Brett will not take in this beer.
2/13/2013 2:18:06 PM

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Cletus 6354:233
Originally posted by GT2
Iíve had Veritas 11 and the Box Set Track series version of it, and there was no Brett C character, which imparts pineapple and peach flavors. There is literal nectarines in that one, so it could be misleading to think you are getting Brett C. My guess is that the Brett will not take in this beer.


Thatís what I was thinking. I didnít think Brett C did much of anything in beers that high in ABV.
2/13/2013 2:23:20 PM

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HornyDevil
Originally posted by Cletus
For those of you familiar with Brett Clausenii, what type of character, if any, will this particular stain impart on this beer over time? At what point will this beer "peak"?


Iíve used Brett C quite a bit and as a primary fermenter it attenuates much like a normal saccharomyces strain gives mostly gives a tropical fruit/pineapple type of aroma with very little classic Brett aroma or flavor.

Over a prolonged period of time, however, it does do something a little bit different as it does give a restrained classic Brett character.

Personally, the addition of Brett C in this beer sounds more like wankery and less like good sound recipe formulation. Ditto for the nectarines.
2/13/2013 2:40:52 PM

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cquiroga 371:11
I am very skeptical about the Brett viability in this beer. Per Tomme, it is in there to help clean up whatever additional (unwanted) microflora may have come along with the nectarine skins. Iím paraphrasing a bit, but they made it abundantly clear that they do not expect the beer ever to have any distinct sourness. Kind of a shame, in a way, because it seems to me that some sourness would be a lovely complement to some of the other flavors going on in there, and would give it a bit more of that "Cuvee de Tomme" character.... As it is, though, Veritas 011 is a pretty cool, very big and fruity barleywine. I like it as an indication that the Veritas line doesnít always have to be sour, and I particularly liked the Box Set version of the beer (Track 13), along with the other cocktail-like Box Set beer, Track 11, for their intensity of flavor and how they really pushed the envelope of beer design. I look forward to a lot more beers with these same types of flavor experiences. I just hope they donít all cost $30+ for a 750mL bottle...
2/13/2013 2:49:09 PM

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cquiroga 371:11
Originally posted by HornyDevil
Personally, the addition of Brett C in this beer sounds more like wankery and less like good sound recipe formulation. Ditto for the nectarines.


Iíd love to hear more thoughts on the beer (and some of the other Box Set stuff from Lost Abbey) with regard to recipe formulation... Particularly from people who have tasted it (not to call you out personally-- not sure if youíve tried it or not).

Itís obvious this is not a beer whose recipe was designed purely with aspirations toward traditional values of "good sound recipe formulation." It seems to me that the strong barrel character, fruit additives, and the pure flavor of alcohol are working in this beer (and others in the Box Set line) to create a "balance" much more like a cocktail/mixed drink made with higher alcohol (80-proof-ish) spirits, mixers, bitters, and fruit additives. I think itís pretty awesome.

And this is not to say that this beer tastes exactly like any particular cocktail Iíve ever had, or that replacing or replicating cocktails is a worthwhile goal in and of itself. And Iím definitely concerned about the repeatability and scalability of creating something like this (which are two standards, again, that typically align with "good sound recipe formulation" and "technically expert brewing"), and also about the price of the end product (which obviously is influenced by those factors of repeatability and scalability). But as a one-off, experimental beer with an aim to expand the possibilities of beer flavor experiences, I completely dig it.
2/13/2013 3:16:59 PM

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Cletus 6354:233
Chris, as someone who has had this beer, how does it compare to a traditional English Barleywine? The reviews for this one are all over the place.
2/13/2013 3:20:34 PM

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cquiroga 371:11
Not even remotely close to an English Barleywine, if you ask me.

Itís an American Barleywine base, which means it has a much greater hop content (and that it is a different base beer than what they use for Angelís Share). After the barrel-aging, Iíd say it becomes similar in some ways to other barrel-aged (or just "cellar-aged") American barleywines that weíve all come to know and (not necessarily) love-- things like BA Double Bastard and Old Guardian, BA Old Ruffian, and the like (just to name a few off the top of my head). The hops have faded to more of a scratchy/astringent accent than a major focal point of the aroma or flavor.

But I actually think the nectarines are a pretty cool addition to the beer, to make it a little distinct in that company. To my taste, they "rejuvenate" the beer a little with some brightness in flavor and aroma, and almost certainly add a kind of slightly syrupy fullness to the mouthfeel. I donít mean to suggest a cloying, overwhelming syrupy sweetness by any means-- more like there was probably some unfermentable matter imparted by the nectarines that translated to a very full, rich body that works nicely with the ample carbonation I experienced in the one bottle Iíve tried. The closest point of comparison I can make for the mouthfeel and balance of sweetness and barrel character is probably De Dolle Stille Nacht Reserva 2000 (back when it was carbonated). Unfortunately, Iím not saying Veritas 011 is anywhere near as delicious as DDSNR2000 was in its prime, but itís a solid beer that Iím curious to follow as it evolves over the next year or two.

In the Box Set beer (Track 13 - Message in a Bottle, which has Cognac barleywine, sour cherries, and orange zest), I got less carbonation and more of a focus on the alcohol as sort of a balancing point. Less fruity fullness, more cognac character, and a little bit more "raw" overall, but perhaps even cooler for its off-center leanings....

For other indications of some of the experimenting that Tomme & Co. have done with this kind of barrel treatment and flavor balancing, see also the following two beers:

Box Set #2 - Stairway to Heaven, which has Bourbon Angelís Share, Bourbon Cuvee, Project X (spontaneously fermented sour blonde), and peaches

and Box Set #11 - Devil Went Down to Georgia, which has Bourbon Angelís Share with peaches, black tea and Brett C.

I thought Box Set #11 was probably my favorite out of all 4 of these beers, and that it was definitely the most "out there" in terms of its rebeliousness against normal accepted standards of "good" beer flavor profiles. Box Set #2 Iíve had several times, and most of them leaned towards kind of a brown sugary focus that lost the fruit too much (and none of them have had quite enough carbonation for my liking-- it was just barely there), but recent bottles have showed more acid and Cuvee-like flavors, and also picked up sort of an interesting "footiness" and funk that reminded me a bit of aged bottles of Veritas 003 from a couple of years ago. That one bottle of Box Set #2 that was the most Cuvee-like was right up there with the bottle of Box Set #11-- probably better, if I had to pick just one.

All good stuff. Very cool.
2/13/2013 3:47:55 PM

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