100% brett -- sour or not

Reads 5509 • Replies 78 • Started Wednesday, September 3, 2014 5:41:29 AM CT

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Message joet P admin beers 2900 º places 125 º 05:41 Wed 9/3/2014 This seems to really be a matter of opinion, yes? Is "Sour" a category? Is it to be judged by its degree of perceived sourness? Aren’t some forms of Brett souring and exhibit grapefruit flavors, while some are are plainly not souring at all? Is 100% Brett possible and thereby meaningful in the course of even very hygienic brewing practice? Is the QED that we should NOT call something "Sour/Wild" just because the label says "100% Brett"?
Message keanex beers 1802 º places 65 º 05:48 Wed 9/3/2014 Isn’t Orval 100% Brett? That’s not sour at all.
Message joet P admin beers 2900 º places 125 º 05:56 Wed 9/3/2014 I seriously doubt Orval could possibly be 100% anything.
Message MatSciGuy beers 924 º 06:11 Wed 9/3/2014 I would argue that it’s not a matter of opinion, Joe. Sour comes from acid. Brett, under conditions of fermentation, produces almost no acid and certainly not enough for anyone to call a beer that is 100% Brett fermented sour. Beers like Surly Pentagram and Russian River Sanctification, both of which claim to be 100% Brett, actually do have pedio (and maybe lacto as well, I’m not sure). It really perpetuates the confusion of Brett and its relation to sour beers. You can have Brett strains that give a big grapefruit character (CLevar and I have one in a barrel right now), but ’grapefruit’ flavor is independent of the acidity - it makes sense - it’s obviously not lactic or acetic acid that gives grapefruit its sourness.

Message JohnnyJ beers 5827 º places 100 º 06:13 Wed 9/3/2014 If a beer is 100% brett, but is not sour, I think it should be listed under its base beer style. On a similar note, I have had intentionally sour beers with a saison base, which where listed under saison style, should they be changed to sour ale category?
Message _angst_ P beers 5019 º places 97 º 06:21 Wed 9/3/2014 Brett isn’t sour but here the style is sour/wild and brett is wild iirc.
Message joet P admin beers 2900 º places 125 º 06:26 Wed 9/3/2014 Is a 100% Brett beer an observation that be made under a microscope post-pitch? In other words, what is a normal range of contribution of other ubiquitous yeasts and bacteria in a typical brewing setting to a "100% Brett" beer, especially one dumped in barrel? Haven’t we all had "100% Brett" beers that were more obviously driven by Lactobacillus?
Message joet P admin beers 2900 º places 125 º 06:32 Wed 9/3/2014 Another complicating factor is that some traditional "sour" makers target low acid profiles while noting other drinks, like wine, are lower in pH and taste more sour while not deserving of a "Sour Wines" label or category. Is "Sour" a beer category independent of pH? It seems its been used this way. If it’s a problem, what is a meaningful and appropriate alternative?

Message VsXsV P beers 5000 º places 92 º 06:35 Wed 9/3/2014 Originally posted by keanex Isn’t Orval 100% Brett? That’s not sour at all. Orval is fermented with an ale yeast to begin with. Brett is added during secondary fermentation. Source: Brew like a Monk by Stan Hieronymus. If you’ve ever had a very fresh Orval (less than a month old) it is not very "bretty", it really becomes funky after a few months.
Message TheHOFF43 P beers 2045 º places 169 º 06:45 Wed 9/3/2014 CLevar?
Message haukur beers 2184 º places 32 º 06:50 Wed 9/3/2014 I have mentioned this before but I can go crazy just going through ratings of brett beers. A LOT of people do not seem to comprehend the difference between dry and sour. Loads of beers in the db have sour written all over the reviews but the beer itself is not sour at all.