UK beer scene

Reads 48887 • Replies 403 • Started Thursday, August 26, 2010 3:40:49 PM CT

The forums you're viewing are the static, archived version. You won't be able to post or reply here.
Our new, modern forums are here:
RateBeer Forums

Thread Frozen

Message harrisoni P beers 25356 º places 68 º 01:27 Fri 9/17/2010 Originally posted by AndrewC What’s the difference between blanket pressure keg and blanket pressure cask in terms of the beer’s longevity? You don’t need blanket pressure on a keg as very little air gets into the keg and therefore doesn’t oxidise the beer in the same way as venting a cask would.
Message harrisoni P beers 25356 º places 68 º 01:33 Fri 9/17/2010 Originally posted by AndrewC I once went on holiday with a poly pin of "live" mild and a poly pin of "bright" bitter. Is "bright" beer the same as keg or is keg centrifuged or something? What was interesting was that the "bright" beer changed character over 3 days just as the "live" one did. I suppose the "bright" one was oxidising. For 3 days, both beers evolved from good to great! The polypin beer would have been treated like a cask beer, with some extra yeast pitched into the polypin or filled almost straight away from the fermenter so there is still some live yeast in suspension, for some secondary fermentation to take place in the pin and that’s why with something like Goachers, which we’ve both had in pins, you need to leave it for a time to stand, let the yeast fall to the bottom and you can see that the box has expanded due to the extra CO2 produced from the secondary fermentation. Bright beer is from the conditioning tanks, so will have less live yeast in it. You will have the "condition" from the beer that has developed in the tank, but you won’t get the secondary fermentation (or very little) in the box.
Message AndrewC beers 407 º places 1 º 02:25 Fri 9/17/2010 @MagicDave6, @InvalidStout, @harrisoni Thanks for the information.

Message haddonsman beers 1234 º places 56 º 04:34 Fri 9/17/2010 Originally posted by harrisoni The Struise idea of using key kegs, one off use containers seems a good middle way. Which is how Thornbridge are currently kegging Jaipur. And possibly Kipling in the near future.
Message harrisoni P beers 25356 º places 68 º 04:46 Fri 9/17/2010 Originally posted by haddonsman Originally posted by harrisoni The Struise idea of using key kegs, one off use containers seems a good middle way. Which is how Thornbridge are currently kegging Jaipur. And possibly Kipling in the near future. Now why didn’t you say that in the first place? Superb idea, I really don’t think that there will be a huge difference between the 2 versions to be honest, maybe a slightly better mouthfeel on the cask version, but much better than if it were traditionally kegged and using CO2 to dispense. Looking forward to trying it then.
Message Christian beers 17294 º places 278 º 05:17 Fri 9/17/2010 Brewdog also use key kegs, at least the Mikkeller we drink here is served like that. I don’t think it’s a matter of carbonation, but simply a practical transportation issue. I don’t want my Stateside IPA with cask-like carbonation anyway. Brown bitters: My ratings say that Phoenix Sticky Wicket has been perfect for me. I also clearly remember a great Broadies bitter. Harvey and St. Austell are some of the breweries we can actually get around here, and I love them - both brown and golden. Have you seen Martyn’s latest blog on Barleywine vs. Old Ale? Another wonderful style discussion http://zythophile.wordpress.com/2010/09/14/so-what-is-the-difference-between-barley-wine-and-old-ale/
Message Erlangernick beers 6 º places 2 º 05:22 Fri 9/17/2010 Originally posted by SamGamgee Originally posted by SilkTork Originally posted by wheresthepath I’ve always tended to think of US beers being hop-dominated, UK beers being malt dominated and Belgian beers being dominated by great yeasts. I tend to think along the same lines, though I think the UK also has a relationship with yeasts and fermentation techniques that the US breweries have yet to acquire. This I would agree with, as a recovering Yank. ... Even home brewers from what I understand are terrified of open fermentation. I have never quite understood the term "craft brewing" that Americans use, It’s used to differentiate between industrial lager and GoodBeer brewed by the young generation of microbrewers, who only began operating in the 1980s (and a few odd exceptions here and there around the country). We used to say "microbrewed beer", but that became somewhat impractical, I guess. And it didn’t cover the contract brewers like Samuel Adams, Pete’s, and their ilk, nor the odd "craft" beers brewed at big old regional breweries here and there. as my impression of American brewing, both home and commercial, is that it is fairly industrialised, following precise methods and procedures, and being fairly nervous of going outside prescribed lines. I think you’re confusing Yanks and Krau...Germans! Easily done, of course, we’re so alike. The more organic method of trusting to nature, and of letting things happen to see what results, and of incremental crafting, which is second nature to European brewers, Except in that big country between France and the Czech Republic. ... Crafting to me is where things are made by hand and each product is unique. Yes, "craft" in the "handcrafted" and "craftsman" sense (which is the only sense, I guess) does imply more "one-off" than what’s done by big "craft brewers". But the homebrewers are hand craftsmen. Until American brewers fully understand and embrace cask conditioning and natural carbonation, then the real notion of craft brewing is being slightly missed. I suppose each place will brew to their strengths - USA has hops, Europe has varied brewing traditions, yeasts, and malts. ... Not bad points. I know this is getting off topic, but I think you seriously misunderstand the American homebrew scene and even American brewing in general. American hombrewers are the most adventurous and interesting brewers in the world. This I agree with. I challenge you to point out any other group that compares. And this business about fearing nature? Can you elaborate on this, because as I read it, it makes me want to think that you don’t understand how brewing works, which I don’t think is true given how knowledgeable that I know you are from my time here. Clearly he’s getting at the fear of open fermentation. Open fermentation leads to great beers, but it ain’t risk free. I’m about to start homebrewing again after 13 years, and I think I’ll do an "open" primary, in the 10 gallon brew kettle, though with the lid on. Too much dust and human detritus floating around the typical human household for a real open fermentation IMO. A brewery’s fermentation cellar is a more controlled environment. But I suspect he also means Yank brewers’ overwhelming anality in brewing methods in general, not just with open fermentation.

Message SilkTork P beers 7741 º places 111 º 11:22 Fri 9/17/2010 Originally posted by AndrewC Originally posted by InvalidStout I don’t see any reason why higher carbonation and keg should necessarily go hand in hand. Surely they are separate issues? What’s the difference between blanket pressure keg and blanket pressure cask in terms of the beer’s longevity? I know CAMRA don’t like cask beer under blanket pressure because the Romans didn’t do it that way or something. I’m being flippant. ...but still, I bet 80% of the cask I drink is actually under blanket pressure. I bet it’s only when the CAMRA rep comes round that the average landlord nips down the cellar and starts doing it like the Romans. I have had this confirmed to me by a number of pub landlords, and a couple of brewpub owners.
Message SilkTork P beers 7741 º places 111 º 11:28 Fri 9/17/2010 Originally posted by InvalidStout Originally posted by cgarvieuk Originally posted by SilkTork I don’t want a quality keg revolution. I want a quality cask revolution. here here. my problem with Keg is most are too fizzy for me. Im really not fond of fizzy beer. The odd thing is that keg advocates used to argue that CO2 pressure didn’t make beer any fizzier unless misused. Now they argue that the higher carbonation is a good thing. In any case I don’t see any reason why higher carbonation and keg should necessarily go hand in hand. Surely they are separate issues? Keg beers are delivered by gas pressure which introduces an acidity into the beer. Some people like this acidity for its crisp, refreshing quality. Some people don’t. On the whole I prefer the softer natural carbonation produced by the yeast rather than the sharpness of the carbonation produced by the gas bottle. However, to be fair, even natural carbonation can be aggressive and unpleasant. I prefer to allow some Belgians to settle a while before drinking them. I tend to think of carbonation in terms of water. I prefer my water fresh and natural rather than carbonated.
Message SilkTork P beers 7741 º places 111 º 11:32 Fri 9/17/2010 Originally posted by InvalidStout Originally posted by AndrewC Originally posted by InvalidStout I don’t see any reason why higher carbonation and keg should necessarily go hand in hand. Surely they are separate issues? What’s the difference between blanket pressure keg and blanket pressure cask in terms of the beer’s longevity? I know CAMRA don’t like cask beer under blanket pressure because the Romans didn’t do it that way or something. I’m being flippant. ...but still, I bet 80% of the cask I drink is actually under blanket pressure. I bet it’s only when the CAMRA rep comes round that the average landlord nips down the cellar and starts doing it like the Romans. CAMRA don’t inspect cellars as far as I know. In most of the pubs I drink in I don’t think they need blanket pressure/race spiles/cask breathers because they go through a firkin in less than a day anyway. Pubs that don’t sell much cask generally also sell boring cask, and frankly with the price of beer nowadays I’m not spending my money on the boring stuff. Mild is a slow seller, and as it is low abv it stales quickly. I think a number of pubs which sell mild will use a breather. It wouldn’t be economical otherwise.