Originally posted by Drake
Thought it would never happen, but I finally have a 5.0 rating.
And it’s a kriek.
My first (and thus far only) was an imperial stout 
Agree with GT2 that the deconstructed scoring scale does hurt some beers, particularly with appearance. |
ORval is only bier 5 site allowed Gary given ever happen to manifest time this website beerrate hellfucken |
Originally posted by Stine
Dark Lord is the pinnacle of the average enthusiast’s early tastes. Sours, on the other hand, require adaptation and exposure to many examples.
I really don’t think this is always true. A bunch of people I know (including my mother and girlfriend) are quite into lambics, but don’t like anything with a lot of roasted malts. They’re not really beer enthusiasts in general either.
And the first time I had a real lambic, as opposed the the chemically enhanced shit I used to drink when I was younger, I was immediately sold. |
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Originally posted by craftycarl21
To joet’s and b3shine’s points, I think sours/lambics, generally speaking, fall later in an individual’s palate development. To appreciate the style, one usually would have more awareness of nuance, complexity, and cohesion of traits, while imperial stouts are undeniably full, bold, and assertive. The less experienced rater, I would say, is more likely to give an imperial stout a 5 because it is so obviously packed with flavor and intensity, and also maybe because they have some sort of precedent of what a ’stout’ is, like Guinness or the like. By the same token, experienced raters and sour appreciators like those chiming in to this forum might perhaps be less willing to give in to a beer being the absolutely perfect representation of that category, believing that there could very well be something more deserving of that 5. Could be total b/s, just a thought.
+1 |
Originally posted by craftycarl21
To joet’s and b3shine’s points, I think sours/lambics, generally speaking, fall later in an individual’s palate development.
What are Gary’s thoughts on palate development?
In all seriousness, I concur with this. It certainly was true for me. My highest rated sour is a 4.8, and is my 2nd highest rated beer overall. Appearance is certainly a big issue here, as sours can appear to look like any number of other beers. What would make it stand out unless it had some sort of pretty red/pink color? With imperial stouts, dark as hell pours with tan/khaki head are pretty striking. Not to mention if your experience with said beer was on nitro (e.g. Zhukov’s Final Push). |
Originally posted by MatSciGuy
This is a totally anecdotal observation and I would love to see some solid statistical data on it, but one thing that I’ve noticed is that despite the massive hype and demand around sour beers, there are very few perfect ratings as compared to other highly desired and rated styles such as imperial stout.
Has anyone else noticed this?
For example: Girardin Black Label Geuze, one of the best out there and #3 for the style (unretired), has 1198 ratings and only five perfect ratings - a rate of ~0.4%. Meanwhile, Dark Lord, with 1660 ratings, has 84 perfect ratings for a ~5% rate - a full order of magnitude higher.
What gives? Is it that the intensity of the types of flavors in imperial stouts just appeals to more people? It can’t be that imperial stouts are more intense in general - lambics and wilds have a crazy amount of flavor and are so strikingly different that I wouldn’t buy argument.
Could it be hype? Sours seem to be substantially more hyped right now than imperial stouts. Is it that there is so much hype around sours that the beers just can’t deliver? Are people expecting things from their sour beers that just aren’t reasonable? Is the hype around sours less justified versus imperial stouts? Maybe the supply and demand are so unbalanced that when there’s any halfway decent sour released people go crazy, versus an imperial stout that will need to stand out among hundreds, even thousands of others?
I’d love to hear peoples’ thoughts about this.
If you’re into geuze & you think that Girardin Black Label Geuze doesn’t deliver, the problem is with you & not the beer, esp. if we are talking about the 75’s.
Most people on RB are from the USA, sours are expensive there & very rare, only huge beer bro’s drink them regularly, the audience rating them is a very special one. Sours are a lot more fun if they are affordable & you can really drink them instead of bragging about hoarding 50 $ bottle. I don’t mean anything bad here but you have to admit that you are dealing with a select crew of people that are rating that kind of beers in the USA.
Americans raters do tend to overrated halfway decent sours way too much these days, anything that tastes like vinegar is bound to get crazy scores. |
I love geuze and cantillon shits on any Girardin from a great hight |
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Originally posted by GT2
Sours almost never have head retention just by chemical nature, so perhaps some are hesitant to award 5s for appearance. Sometimes I see 5s dished out for sour appearance when it simply has a pretty color like KP Kriek, St Lam, Wakefield PFDF, De Garde Currant Gin Bu, etc.
My highest rated beer is 99 3F OG and the only reason it wasn’t a 5 was because of this...just couldn’t bring myself to say it looked perfect... |
Originally posted by Stine
Sours, on the other hand, require adaptation and exposure to many examples. Thus, they become more critically judged. The ceiling for complexity and intrigue with sours for a person who knows and appreciates them can seem unknowable, I think.
This nails it for me.
Part of the reason I haven’t given certain sours, or saisons for that matter, a perfect 5 is because I always think there could be a little something more as these beers can seem to be infinitely complex.
But I don’t really rate anymore, so what do I know. |
Originally posted by Stine
Originally posted by craftycarl21
To joet’s and b3shine’s points, I think sours/lambics, generally speaking, fall later in an individual’s palate development. To appreciate the style, one usually would have more awareness of nuance, complexity, and cohesion of traits, while imperial stouts are undeniably full, bold, and assertive. The less experienced rater, I would say, is more likely to give an imperial stout a 5 because it is so obviously packed with flavor and intensity, and also maybe because they have some sort of precedent of what a ’stout’ is, like Guinness or the like. By the same token, experienced raters and sour appreciators like those chiming in to this forum might perhaps be less willing to give in to a beer being the absolutely perfect representation of that category, believing that there could very well be something more deserving of that 5. Could be total b/s, just a thought.
Nope, this is spot on. Dark Lord is the pinnacle of the average enthusiast’s early tastes. Sours, on the other hand, require adaptation and exposure to many examples. Thus, they become more critically judged. The ceiling for complexity and intrigue with sours for a person who knows and appreciates them can seem unknowable, I think.
This.
I would love to see an analysis across users of how the odds of a perfect score change with experience. I know that I have given BA Dark Lord a 5.0 because of a perfect combination of beer, location, and other factors. If I tried again that might change. It is about as likely that I will ever give out another one. |
