Worty Off-Flavours

I’ve just brewed a saison and bottled it yesterday. It has quite a pronounced wort-like note, which isn’t particularly pleasant.

Googling suggests the responsible compounds are aldehydes (3-Methylbutanal, 2-methylbutanal and 3-methylthiopropionaldehyde) which are removed by yeast in a normal fermentation. This suggests fermentation was incomplete, but I’m struggling to see why that would be - they turn up most commonly in alcohol-free beers.

Here’s the recipe:

75% Maris Otter
8.3% Oats
8.3% Wheat Malt
8.3% Caragold

50g Bobek FWH, 20g at 10, 20g at 5, 10g at 0.

Fermented with 1 12g pack, not rehydrated, of Belle Saison. OG 1.032, FG 1.004.

Fermentation seemed to go pretty well. Lag time was longer (24 hours before visible airlock activity) than I had last time with that strain. Fermented to 1.004, which is exactly what I wanted, fairly quick.

Does anyone have any experience or knowledge of this flaw and know what might have caused it? Is it likely the aldehydes in question will be broken down in the bottle (it’s carbonating to 3 vols, so a fair bit of activity in the bottle)?

I’ve just got some anecdotal evidence from a homebrewer who had significant amounts of this flavour twice but who bottled and, in both cases, it totally disappeared within a month. So hopefully that will happen here. Still very interested to know the cause. The only research papers I can find on it are about these alcohol-free beers they ’ferment’ at 0C (which is too low for the yeast to actually ferment sugar to produce ethanol, but which allows for some other yeast activity, though not enough to produce the enzymes which remove the worty character, so wortyness is a common off-flavour). But since mine fermented well above 20C, this isn’t much use to me.

give the beer some time. sounds like it needed a bit more time before kegging/bottling. probably going to be one of those batches that piss me off when the last one is the best one and i know i F’d myself by being impatient.

It has cleared-up already. The worty smell has disappeared and its smelling great. Quite a relief, though I’d still like to know what caused it in the first place.

I brew Saisons with half Pils for 90 mins. U need mild hop additions, not FWH. Let the yeasts do there magic. I use fruity late additions hops. I start temp@68f and let slow rise to 75ish.

I’m pretty happy with the recipe and process as it is.

The grist is the way it is for a reason - it’s 4% and finished dry and needs plenty of character, hence the caragold, which I normally would not put in a saison. The wheat and oats are for body, again because it’s so light and dry. I use Maris Otter as the base malt in pretty much all the beers I make. It’s characterful without getting in the way of other aspects of the beer like hops or yeast. I’ve never been a fan of pils.

I first wort hop all my saisons. It gives the beer a rounder bitterness and a better hop flavour, which is important in this style, because the softer bitterness stops such a lean beer from seeming astringent, and saisons are typically hoppy beers. Not sure what you mean by ’mild hop additions’ or why that’s a good idea.

Not sure what you mean by ’fruity’ hops here either. If you mean typically fruity American/New Zealand/Australian hops, I completely disagree. These just don’t work in saisons, for the most part. On the other hand, Bobek (one of a number of hops previously going under the name ’Styrian Goldings’, so pretty appropriate here) has some nice lime notes, so some fruit notes can be nice. Bobek is actually my go-to hop for saisons at the moment.

Your temperatures sound okay to me, though I prefer to start lower, at about 16-17C (60.8-62.6F) and let it rise a bit higher, around 25C (77C), though where it rises to varies more, obvs.

Originally posted by Wittales
U need mild hop additions, not FWH.

Originally posted by bitbucket

Originally posted by Wittales
U need mild hop additions, not FWH.

That sort of depends on what you’re trying to accomplish. If you like hoppy Saisons (and I do) FWH wouldn’t be a bad way to go. But if you’re using Pils malt and using the standard 90 minute boil (which I also do) then FWH doesn’t seem quite as attractive.

I’ve seen the same with Belle Saison a couple of times. Given enough time it seems to mostly disappear. One time I let the beer sit in the fermenter almost a month after it was down to 1.004 or 5, and that surprisingly gave me the best result.

Originally posted by GarethYoung
thing you can do, if you’re boiling for 90 mins (which I do quite a lot), is put the hops in a bag and remove it after 45-60 minutes. Gets you the bitterness and flavour you want without the astringency that a longer boil can give. Ior nmally do this with any beer I’m boiling over 60 mins, actually, even if I’m not first wort hopping.

Originally posted by yngwie
I’ve seen the same with Belle Saison a couple of times. Given enough time it seems to mostly disappear. One time I let the beer sit in the fermenter almost a month after it was down to 1.004 or 5, and that surprisingly gave me the best result.