Balancing acid in sour beers

Reads 2653 • Replies 33 • Started Friday, March 18, 2016 5:03:46 PM CT

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bitbucket
beers 2166 º places 63 º 13:03 Fri 9/9/2016

Originally posted by CLevar
Blending only goes so far and is overly simplistic without more information- take a very acidic sour red, and blend in, say, an amber ale with no acidity, and you likely are going to have problems.

I think blending is key to achieving certain flavor profiles (old beer + younger hoppy beer, as an example) but the beers that you blend have to be appropriate for the use. Low residual extract is key. Or you better have a good handle on priming calculators...

You can screw up just about anything if you try hard enough.

 
HornyDevil
14:25 Fri 9/9/2016

Originally posted by bitbucket
Originally posted by SamGamgee
Blending.

This. Plus taking appropriate measures to curb or at least restrain the formation of acetic acid.

You can buy various microbe blends that attempt to balance the acid formation by providing the correct proportions of brettanomyces, lactobacillus, saccharomyces, and sometimes pediococcus but much depends upon your IBUs, pH, temperature and other environmental factors, so they really can’t provide an exact balance.


Proportions of microbes don’t matter as much as the recipe and fermentation technique that you mentioned. Microbes have different growth rates so if they are all in the same environment, they will each grow at different speeds.

 
HornyDevil
14:28 Fri 9/9/2016

Originally posted by CLevar
Blending only goes so far and is overly simplistic without more information- take a very acidic sour red, and blend in, say, an amber ale with no acidity, and you likely are going to have problems.


Problems with?

Originally posted by CLevar
I think blending is key to achieving certain flavor profiles (old beer + younger hoppy beer, as an example) but the beers that you blend have to be appropriate for the use. Low residual extract is key. Or you better have a good handle on priming calculators...


Indeed.

It certainly takes practice to achieve the result that you intend.

 
bitbucket
beers 2166 º places 63 º 14:42 Fri 9/9/2016

Originally posted by HornyDevil
Originally posted by bitbucket
Originally posted by SamGamgee
Blending.

This. Plus taking appropriate measures to curb or at least restrain the formation of acetic acid.

You can buy various microbe blends that attempt to balance the acid formation by providing the correct proportions of brettanomyces, lactobacillus, saccharomyces, and sometimes pediococcus but much depends upon your IBUs, pH, temperature and other environmental factors, so they really can’t provide an exact balance.


Proportions of microbes don’t matter as much as the recipe and fermentation technique that you mentioned. Microbes have different growth rates so if they are all in the same environment, they will each grow at different speeds.

I’m also expecting that when there is direct competition for the same food source, the early bird will tend to get the worm and that the more ’omnivorous’ types will generally fare better than the ’finicky eaters’.

 
HornyDevil
14:59 Fri 9/9/2016

Originally posted by bitbucket
I’m also expecting that when there is direct competition for the same food source, the early bird will tend to get the worm and that the more ’omnivorous’ types will generally fare better than the ’finicky eaters’.


The faster growing microbes definitely have the advantage, but it all depends upon which kinds of sugars that each different species/strain can ferment. Not every yeast or bacteria is capable of fermenting the same food sources, as you mention. On top of that you have genera like brettanomyces that have glucosidase enzymes which can break down larger sugars and pediococcus sp. which have amylase enzymes which can break down even larger ones than brett can.

On top of that you have to consider how genetic advantages like killer factor and glucose repression can effect competition.

Neat stuff, really.

 
Homer321
beers 5359 º places 54 º 16:02 Fri 9/9/2016

Joe,

I use about a teaspoon of this when I open a 750 ml of sour beer. Just sprinkle it on top. Really balances the acid nicely.

https://www.morebeer.com/products/52-ph-stabilizer.html?variant=WM57&gclid=COyIq5KXg88CFQsoaQoddFQHmQ

 
CLevar
places 23 º 12:28 Sat 9/10/2016

Originally posted by HornyDevil
Originally posted by CLevar
Blending only goes so far and is overly simplistic without more information- take a very acidic sour red, and blend in, say, an amber ale with no acidity, and you likely are going to have problems.


Problems with?

Originally posted by CLevar
I think blending is key to achieving certain flavor profiles (old beer + younger hoppy beer, as an example) but the beers that you blend have to be appropriate for the use. Low residual extract is key. Or you better have a good handle on priming calculators...


Indeed.

It certainly takes practice to achieve the result that you intend.


Problems with bottle bombs, as the malt Amber at 3P gets fermented out.

 
joeneugs
beers 6371 º places 241 º 12:32 Sat 9/10/2016

Originally posted by Homer321
Joe,

I use about a teaspoon of this when I open a 750 ml of sour beer. Just sprinkle it on top. Really balances the acid nicely.

https://www.morebeer.com/products/52-ph-stabilizer.html?variant=WM57&gclid=COyIq5KXg88CFQsoaQoddFQHmQ

 
hopbomber
beers 88 º places 40 º 13:51 Sun 9/11/2016

Originally posted by CLevar
Originally posted by HornyDevil
Originally posted by CLevar
Blending only goes so far and is overly simplistic without more information- take a very acidic sour red, and blend in, say, an amber ale with no acidity, and you likely are going to have problems.


Problems with?

Originally posted by CLevar
I think blending is key to achieving certain flavor profiles (old beer + younger hoppy beer, as an example) but the beers that you blend have to be appropriate for the use. Low residual extract is key. Or you better have a good handle on priming calculators...


Indeed.

It certainly takes practice to achieve the result that you intend.


Problems with bottle bombs, as the malt Amber at 3P gets fermented out.


What on earth does that mean ?

 
Bontus
beers 939 º places 20 º 14:49 Sun 9/11/2016

For geuze, the type of fermentables are controlled with the unmalted wheat and mash profile.
Correct sizing of barrels helps with the oxidation control.
Then also timing of the fermentation (process takes months). Brett in the end helps with balancing but is a slow one.

Then of course, blending is the key.

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