CAMRA chairman angry at BA magazine article

Reads 24587 • Replies 192 • Started Sunday, May 29, 2011 3:15:27 AM CT

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tdtm82
beers 1704 º places 138 º 10:08 Wed 6/1/2011

Originally posted by traPISSED
It’s funny, there is an Irish beer consumer group called Beoir and as far as I can see, they couldn’t care how a beer is conditioned or dispensed. All they want is a well made quality beer that tastes good. This is how it should be in my opinion.




+1 and this is an organisation I want to join. Should be about quality good beer, not shit cask or keg beer. I don’t care how they despense it as long as it’s good. Evin can give me a beer on a plate and I’d strill drink it ’cos I know it’s good

 
tdtm82
beers 1704 º places 138 º 10:12 Wed 6/1/2011

Originally posted by MagicDave6
Originally posted by tdtm82
I don’t have a problem with cask conditioning. I have a problem with people denying both sides of conditioning. I think it should be open to a brewers’ discretion how they condition a beer. Cask or keg. It deosn’t matter. What does matter is that that beer is conditioned and served by how that brewer wants it. I’m making perfect sense, I’ve been misquoted far too much. The point is simple. Maybe it’s others whom don’t get that basic point.


Tom, I now understand your misunderstanding. Most brewers have no idea whatsoever as to how you condition a beer. I know as in my early days of cellaring, I used to call up breweries and say "How many days should i vent this for", most would either laugh or simply say "i dont know". I think you should go work at a beer festival or something where you can activy see "condition".

On a different note, Ian, you are mistaken here. The co2 levels of a keg beer is done by force carbonation at the brewery, once at the pub the gas put into the keg is simply pressure to get the beer out. Most kegs use(or shojld use as pure co2 is a bloody waste of time and money) 60/40 gas, this is 60%co2 and 40 nitrogen. The nitrogen being a purely nutral gas and heavier than co2 sits ontop of the beer and the co2 pushes the nitrogen down, in essence like a piston. You cant use pure nitrogen as you dont get the same pressure and you shouldnt use pure co2 as it gets absorbed in over time into the beer(you can use co2, as long as you bave fast turn over of kegs, like less than 2 days per keg) and the beer will "fob", this is where you see loads of head being produced and you have loads of wasteage.

As you can see from reading above, you can "keg condition" a beer(tom dont even start to question this). Indeed many belgian beers are reseeded in the keg rather than force carbonated, as its simply a case of the gas at the bar forces it out the keg. However these beers will be hazy as the yeast is forced out the cask, rather than settle at the bottom, like a cask.


Thanks mate. I did guest work for London Brewers’ Alliance and I enjoyed that a lot and had hoped to do Pig’s Ear but I was really ill and coldn’t go. I’d like to work more in the industry at some point to learn this

 
tdtm82
beers 1704 º places 138 º 10:27 Wed 6/1/2011

Originally posted by cgarvieuk
Originally posted by hopscotch
I hate flat, luke-warm cask ale!

Force carbonate the world!

Is CAMRA angry at me now?


well i am. but i hate fizzy beer


Dark Lord Fizzy Pop version?

 
tdtm82
beers 1704 º places 138 º 10:37 Wed 6/1/2011

Originally posted by cgarvieuk
Originally posted by JorisPPattyn

All true.
Yet, the whole British brewers’ world is still riddled with notions that were obsolete at the end of WWII - and I’m not referring to cask ale, this time (before somebody blows his top - there’s nothing obsolete to cask ale, IMO!).
Ask any brewer in the UK (OK, I might have to skip BrewDog, Meantime and suchlike suspect characters) what is truly the best malt, and he’ll blurt "Maris Otter". I have no qualms that it was, once.
And very well-known UK beer writers - not to mention the brewers again - still adhere to the urban myth that on the "Continent" (another of those marvellous words), decoction is used because of the poor quality of the "Continental" malts...



Id agree there the UK market was very staid. But its getting better.
But just because its stagnent doesnt make all the beer bad.
Id hate to see all the New Wave beers replace the more tradional ’boring’ beers.

I want both. I want big IPA’s, I want high and heavy ABV stouts, but i also want a 4% malty bitter, or golden ale, i want a 3.4% mild.

Id love to see ALL UK brewers brewing more styles. Hell there enough that dont even produce a stout in there range, or if it is its seasonal. I may not be normal, but i want to have a nice stout all year round. Hell its not like we have many sunny days anyway up here


This is what I want too. I want freedom of choice. I want experiments. I don’t want boring beers and big regionals stiffling the market.

 
tdtm82
beers 1704 º places 138 º 10:38 Wed 6/1/2011

Originally posted by harrisoni
Thanks to everyone in the past 5 pages or so who have made sense of this issue.

I must admit, my additions earlier on were driven by passion, love and anger rather than by rational thought.

But the last few pages, where there is learned and reasoned exchange of information was really interesting and educational.

Cheers (drinking a bottle conditioned foreign muck beer)


It’s ok mate. We know you’re passionate and we need more drinkers like you here.

 
tdtm82
beers 1704 º places 138 º 10:39 Wed 6/1/2011

Originally posted by JorisPPattyn
Originally posted by SilkTork
Originally posted by SamGamgee


I just think that you can systematically tear down the rhetoric when you put it up against reality. Keg as practiced in the past and by big brewers in the UK might not be what CAMRA likes, but keg is not inherently like that and can come close to being simply cask beer that does not oxidize when tapped, which is really what every brewer and publican likely wants.


That’s interesting. I think there is as much misunderstanding about "keg" as there is about "cask".

Generally what is understood (or misunderstood) by the term "keg beer" is that it is filtered and force carbonated. I have tried in my comments on this issue to avoid using the term keg as it is a vague term that doesn’t describe or define the beer itself. When people in the UK use the term keg they generally are thinking of filtered beer. When people in the USA use the term keg they are simply thinking of the container rather than the state of the beer within. I think it is only in Belgium and the UK that there is such a concern regarding if a beer is filtered or not.




Hmmmm. UK >>> Belgium.


don’t they govern us in Belgum??

 
tdtm82
beers 1704 º places 138 º 10:41 Wed 6/1/2011

Originally posted by MagicDave6
This is an interesting aspect to the beer scene i hadnt throught about over much. I didnt realise there was such a misunderstanding about different vessels for beer.

Iv got some time off for the next week or so, so perhaps i’ll put a document with pics, showing how these work and whatnot together.


I want to start the campagin for dispatching beer in ships like we used to go.

 
tdtm82
beers 1704 º places 138 º 10:48 Wed 6/1/2011

Originally posted by chriso
Originally posted by Gazza
As for the attack on Tim Webb

Despite the fact that Mr Valentine may regard Tim Webb as "once respected", it is interesting to note that he is on the "CAMRA’s Top 40 Campaigners" shortlist.
http://www.camra.org.uk/page.aspx?o=338374
So, although I know you aren’t a member any more Gazza, perhaps those of us who are might consider casting their votes in Tim’s direction. I already have.


I voted for Tim. COME ON RATE BEER, VOTE FOR TIM.

 
JorisPPattyn
beers 13046 º places 88 º 11:02 Wed 6/1/2011

Originally posted by tdtm82
Originally posted by chriso
Originally posted by Gazza
As for the attack on Tim Webb

Despite the fact that Mr Valentine may regard Tim Webb as "once respected", it is interesting to note that he is on the "CAMRA’s Top 40 Campaigners" shortlist.
http://www.camra.org.uk/page.aspx?o=338374
So, although I know you aren’t a member any more Gazza, perhaps those of us who are might consider casting their votes in Tim’s direction. I already have.


I voted for Tim. COME ON RATE BEER, VOTE FOR TIM.

OK, count me in too. And BTW, I’m still a member with full voting rights... Since 1990 or thereabouts!

 
FatPhil
beers 23236 º places 845 º 13:33 Wed 6/1/2011

Originally posted by SilkTork
If you have spent your life drinking softly carbonated beer, then you will be accustomed to that and will prefer it.


Maybe I’m highly attuned to carbonic acid, but to me, a beer with high forced carbonation tastes partly of carbonic acid. I’ve never had a real ale with that taste .There’s a gap so wide you could drive a tram through it between beers that have a high H2CO3 content and real ales. It’s like listening to a harpsichord vs. a synthesizer’s so-called ’harpsichord’ pad. They’re nothing like each other. And I’m not thinking of crappy fizzy macro muck, even the "craft" keg beers that make you want to drink pint after pint (thank you, Pikkulintu!!) frequently have a noticeable carbonic acid component.