CAMRA chairman angry at BA magazine article

Reads 24596 • Replies 192 • Started Sunday, May 29, 2011 3:15:27 AM CT

The forums you're viewing are the static, archived version. You won't be able to post or reply here.
Our new, modern forums are here:
RateBeer Forums

Thread Frozen
 
jercraigs
beers 14041 º places 937 º 09:07 Mon 5/30/2011

Originally posted by harrisoniNo one from Camra has come up to me at a bar and said "you can’t drink that."


True, but it would take quite a pair of stones to approach a man who once set himself on fire at the pub and try and tell him what to drink!

 
cgarvieuk
beers 35050 º places 453 º 09:16 Mon 5/30/2011

Originally posted by JorisPPattyn
Originally posted by harrisoni
There has been so much rubbish written in the last few months about craft/keg/good beer in the UK in the past few months. Anyone who thinks the Campaign for Real Ale will support keg beer just does not have the ability to read and understand words written in English. Does this make Camra wrong? No of cousre it does not. It means its the campaign for real ale. Blimey.

Is there a mass of keg craft beer floating around the UK? No there isnt. 99% of what is available is still cask and long may that remain. I have not had a keg beer that has the mouthfeel of a cask beer. I may be completely different to everyone else. I dont care.

And as for brown bitters. I have had two today alone that are excellent. Both locally brewed delivered direct to the pub and served brilliantly.

If there is all this keg around how come I am not seeing it? Yes in some bars in London but nit anywhere else.

Yes there are great beer styles around the world and I love pils and helles almost more than cask beer. But to keep saying cask beer is shit and we should ditch it all for a non existant keg revolution is completely daft.

Yes I am a dinosaur yes I am one of the few supporters of Camra on this site. Mainly because I get involved in Camra locally instead of throwing stones from the outside. Give me a pint of Old Dairy Spring Hop over any double imperial barrel aged to death keg bollocks from anywhere else. More flavour does not always mean better flavour. Subtlety and nuance seem to be words some people on this site clearly dont have in their dictionaries

Ian, you’re utterly missing the point what this is all about. Of course CAMRA hasn’t to stand for kegged beer, if they don’t like it.
This is about having the right on a divergent opinion, and voice it, even if almighty CAMRA doesn’t agree. Anybody daring to maintain that in all kinds of beer there might be a piece of gold, and everybody that dares to say he would prefer a good bottle-conditioned beer to a poor cask, is immediately vilified by a vociferous minority in CAMRA.
And on top of that, the CAMRA chairman indulged in a free attack on the people he percieves as a threat - and in a very uncouth way, at that - who were in no position to defend themselves.



While i dont think Colin has done CAMRA any favours, i understand why it happened.

I cant tell you the amount of time people have told ME that CAMRA have to embrace Keg beer, its the future and that there wrong/arrogant/dinosaurs/out of touch etc because they are not embracing Keg beer.


If im hearing this over and over again, you can bet your bottom dollar that theyre hearing it even more. Theyre bound to get frustrated at the Fringe group (all be it one that may grow) Telling them What they now need to do.

 
Fin
beers 15972 º places 1594 º 09:42 Mon 5/30/2011

Like I said, I think that others should set up another group instead of trying to get CAMRA to bend and fit whatever the dissenting voices would like CAMRA to become.

 
JorisPPattyn
beers 13046 º places 88 º 09:58 Mon 5/30/2011

Absolutely the Camra chairman makes a complete arse of himself, but it still doesn’t mean that the hundreds of local Camra branch members who do sterling work promoting cask conditioned beer are wrong. Just because someone likes Black Sheep Best Bitter over Dark Star American Pale Ale, doesn’t mean they are wrong or trying to stop good/craft beer being made. It’s just their preference.


Of course not! That was exactly my - and Martyn Cornell’s point! Just as it isn’t up to "us" to tell CAMRA what they ought to like, it’s not up to CAMRA to tell other beerlovers what they ought not to like.

And since when has Camra stopped me or anyone else enjoying whatever beer that they want? They support Meantime and since when have they produced a cask conditioned beer? No one from Camra has come up to me at a bar and said "you can’t drink that."


Well, not that directly, no. I agree it’s VERY old news, but let me tell you what I experienced a decade and a half ago, in Quoyloo, at the then Orkney brewery.
A friend from the Netherlands and me knocked on the Raven brewers’ door. We were welcomed, the more as we told to be members of OBP and PINT. But then the poor brewers did a doubletake, and asked us in a rather haunted way if we would deem to drink a pint of Skullsplitter... from the keg. They only casked for England, and occasionaly for Edinburgh, as in the neighbourhood nobody cared for cask. So, they had no cask available on the premises. We said we didn’t mind at all, and they visibly brightened, explaining that only the other week, British CAMRA members visited them, were presented (free...) with a glass of the beer, upon which they refused, putting away the glasses, telling the brewers that they ought to be ashamed, and departed.
Yes, it’s a long time ago, but then and now, CAMRA has a hardcore that waves all reason away.
And don’t get me started on the way they oblige BSF to serve some foreign beers at the GBBF...

 
harrisoni
beers 24681 º places 68 º 10:20 Mon 5/30/2011

Originally posted by JorisPPattyn

Well, not that directly, no. I agree it’s VERY old news, but let me tell you what I experienced a decade and a half ago, in Quoyloo, at the then Orkney brewery.
A friend from the Netherlands and me knocked on the Raven brewers’ door. We were welcomed, the more as we told to be members of OBP and PINT. But then the poor brewers did a doubletake, and asked us in a rather haunted way if we would deem to drink a pint of Skullsplitter... from the keg. They only casked for England, and occasionaly for Edinburgh, as in the neighbourhood nobody cared for cask. So, they had no cask available on the premises. We said we didn’t mind at all, and they visibly brightened, explaining that only the other week, British CAMRA members visited them, were presented (free...) with a glass of the beer, upon which they refused, putting away the glasses, telling the brewers that they ought to be ashamed, and departed.
Yes, it’s a long time ago, but then and now, CAMRA has a hardcore that waves all reason away.
And don’t get me started on the way they oblige BSF to serve some foreign beers at the GBBF...



Yep, Camra is full of inconsistencies and there are 100k members. I know of some who would have turned their nose up at keg Skullsplitter and I know some who would have drunk it. I would have drunk it of course. I mean a beer is a beer after all. And if Orkney find it easier to shift the majority of their beer on keg then all power to them. I’d rather they be in business than out of it.

As for the BSF at GBBF, of course, it makes no sense whatsoever. American beers that have a keg recipe forced to cask and then shipped 6000 miles tormenting the fragile beer from being too hot to too cold and then no wonder it isn’t in great shape when we drink it. Czech and German beers made to be served with a little forced carbonation, pumped out of a keg into a jug and then into a glass. Completely foolish. Bottled beers that are not bottle conditioned served in huge quantities from the BSF bar. Augustiner Edelstoff in bottle. Is that cask beer or a real ale? Of course not. Yet I will still buy one for the train journey home.

Does everything in life have to make perfect rational sense? No. Should Macbeth have listened to 3 strange women on the heath and his wife in bed? No. He should have told them to shut up, put their knickers on and make him another cup of tea. But that’s what makes great drama, the tension between what is and what shall never be.

Ultimately the market will decide how beer will go. Yes, some craft/good beer will sell in keg, yes a lot of brown bitter will continue to sell in cask. I just don’t see why everyone is getting their knickers in a twist. If you like a beer, buy it, drink it, tell the pub, distributor, brewer you like it and they may continue it. I am very much one for positive affirmation and for doing something positive and getting involved, rather than for standing outside the tent and pissing in (borrowing a line from Fin).

 
cgarvieuk
beers 35050 º places 453 º 10:26 Mon 5/30/2011

Originally posted by harrisoni
standing outside the tent and pissing in (borrowing a line from Fin).


yeah im thinking i might not tell Fin where my test is at Cropredy this year :-)

 
tdtm82
beers 1704 º places 138 º 10:30 Mon 5/30/2011

Ian, not all CAMRA members are as tuned in as you are on beer and this is the point Joris is making. They are denying dispensing choice and slaying keg as a choice format when it is actually appropriate for some styles.

I have had some scathing arguements over this which you have read both on Scopergen and on blogging boards by people whom do not understand this because they believe everything CAMRA tell them.

It because of this that I quit CAMRA. If CAMRA can realise there are other dipsening methods and not all beer is fantastic cask whilst still promoting cask then I would be happy to re-join.

They demonise bloggers whom also write hugely on cask ale. I have had a beer with a lot of bloggers yet have not had one pint with a member of the Camra hirearcy. How does this make sense? How can they promote this when they are not out and about and easy to communicate and voice to?

It’s extremely frustrating. I am a fan of cask ale but I am a fan of keg ale too. I am not deminising each style. It is the conditioning which is important.

 
harrisoni
beers 24681 º places 68 º 10:30 Mon 5/30/2011

Originally posted by jerc
Originally posted by harrisoniNo one from Camra has come up to me at a bar and said "you can’t drink that."


True, but it would take quite a pair of stones to approach a man who once set himself on fire at the pub and try and tell him what to drink!


Yeah, perhaps I should do that in front of the BSF stand at GBBF this year, dress up in orange robes, get a non-bottled conditioned beer in my hand and then set myself on fire again in protest that this isn’t a real beer. Get Royce to do the press bit and I’d be a star on YouTube in no time.

I have to admit though that being on fire really is no joke and I would have prefered not to have done it, even if it did provide some entertainment.

 
harrisoni
beers 24681 º places 68 º 10:37 Mon 5/30/2011

Originally posted by tdtm82
It is the conditioning which is important.


You have a problem with cask conditioning?

As we have discussed on another thread here Thomas, and as you have admitted yourself, your meaning of "conditioning" and 99% of other people’s meaning of "conditioning" is different. I still think that you mean the state/flavour/freshness of a beer rather than "conditioning" which to everyone else I’ve ever spoken to in the beer world means the level of CO2 in a beer, especially in cask beer where the conditioning is to do with the secondary fermentation in the cask. If you continue to use terms in a different way to everyone else, you will find it hard to make a coherent argument, I would suggest.

 
tdtm82
beers 1704 º places 138 º 10:44 Mon 5/30/2011

I don’t have a problem with cask conditioning. I have a problem with people denying both sides of conditioning. I think it should be open to a brewers’ discretion how they condition a beer. Cask or keg. It deosn’t matter. What does matter is that that beer is conditioned and served by how that brewer wants it. I’m making perfect sense, I’ve been misquoted far too much. The point is simple. Maybe it’s others whom don’t get that basic point.