Catalonia

Reads 1856 • Replies 36 • Started Friday, October 27, 2017 10:41:32 AM CT

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omhper
beers 29683 º places 281 º 02:34 Sun 10/29/2017

Originally posted by adamnowek

Kosovo does not have wide recognition (57% of UN member states and enough countries in the European Union to prevent them from becoming a member in the foreseeable future) and would require a generation’s-worth of political and societal change (in Serbia) to get there.


I'd consider Kosovo's recognition as wide, but not universal.

They are included based on being a disputed territory, and has gone through our 'freezing box' process as the situation has lasted many years.

 
omhper
beers 29683 º places 281 º 02:40 Sun 10/29/2017

Originally posted by teddybeer
Originally posted by omhper
(As we already separate UK this would probably cause headache anyway...)




Not sure why there are upset faces here?
The only thing I am trying to state, is that we really would find ourselves in a strange situation if we did not list Gibraltar (and other dependecies) as countries.

Should we create a UK entry where we add beers only from the overseas and crown dependecies? Or should we add them as English counties? Or ban all users from entering beers/places there?

 
77ships
beers 14200 º places 392 º 03:59 Sun 10/29/2017

The desire for country ticks is clouding your minds.
Screw anyone considering acknowledging Crimea & Novorossiya.
I still do not recognize RB claim that South Ossetia or Abkhazia are countries.

 
omhper
beers 29683 º places 281 º 10:21 Sun 10/29/2017

Originally posted by 77ships
The desire for country ticks is clouding your minds.
Screw anyone considering acknowledging Crimea & Novorossiya.
I still do not recognize RB claim that South Ossetia or Abkhazia are countries.


Do you also not recognize that they are disputed?
They are included as on basis of being disputed areas.

 
adamnowek
beers 5211 º places 118 º 12:39 Sun 10/29/2017

Originally posted by omhper
Originally posted by adamnowek

Kosovo does not have wide recognition (57% of UN member states and enough countries in the European Union to prevent them from becoming a member in the foreseeable future) and would require a generation’s-worth of political and societal change (in Serbia) to get there.


I'd consider Kosovo's recognition as wide, but not universal.

They are included based on being a disputed territory, and has gone through our 'freezing box' process as the situation has lasted many years.


I'm not saying that Kosovo shouldn't be included (it absolutely should be, as the territory has its' own entry requirements, just like Taiwan or South Ossetia), but it is not a widely-recognised state by international standards. Any state that has at least one United Nations member state that refuses to recognise it is considered to have limited recognition; 82 UN member states do not recognise Kosovo.

 
SinH4
beers 12286 º places 409 º 13:39 Sun 10/29/2017

Originally posted by adamnowek
Any state that has at least one United Nations member state that refuses to recognise it is considered to have limited recognition;

so is Israel in that case?

 
77ships
beers 14200 º places 392 º 13:46 Sun 10/29/2017

Originally posted by omhper
Originally posted by 77ships
The desire for country ticks is clouding your minds.
Screw anyone considering acknowledging Crimea & Novorossiya.
I still do not recognize RB claim that South Ossetia or Abkhazia are countries.


Do you also not recognize that they are disputed?
They are included as on basis of being disputed areas.


To take the example of South Ossetia.

South Ossetia is recognized by 4 of the 193 NATO members. Russia recognizes them but they were also involved in South Ossetia War.

RB seems to side with Russia hereby given a bizarre sense of legitimacy to them.

Donetsk People's Republic is “recognized” by Russia who are waging a war there and a group of terrorists. I see no reason to consider the viewpoint of people murdering other people. No need to consider siding with terrorists.

 
omhper
beers 29683 º places 281 º 14:30 Sun 10/29/2017

Originally posted by 77ships

To take the example of South Ossetia.

South Ossetia is recognized by 4 of the 193 NATO members. Russia recognizes them but they were also involved in South Ossetia War.

RB seems to side with Russia hereby given a bizarre sense of legitimacy to them.

Donetsk People's Republic is “recognized” by Russia who are waging a war there and a group of terrorists. I see no reason to consider the viewpoint of people murdering other people. No need to consider siding with terrorists.


Please, nobody here is arguing the fact that places like South Ossetia are Russian puppet states. Nobody is siding with anything.

We are not trying to be UN.
We just draw the map as it lies, seen from a thirsty traveler. There are set criteria for what we list. Having an all-around decent goverment is not one of those.



 
77ships
beers 14200 º places 392 º 15:36 Sun 10/29/2017

Originally posted by omhper
Originally posted by 77ships

To take the example of South Ossetia.

South Ossetia is recognized by 4 of the 193 NATO members. Russia recognizes them but they were also involved in South Ossetia War.

RB seems to side with Russia hereby given a bizarre sense of legitimacy to them.

Donetsk People's Republic is “recognized” by Russia who are waging a war there and a group of terrorists. I see no reason to consider the viewpoint of people murdering other people. No need to consider siding with terrorists.


Please, nobody here is arguing the fact that places like South Ossetia are Russian puppet states. Nobody is siding with anything.

We are not trying to be UN.
We just draw the map as it lies, seen from a thirsty traveler. There are set criteria for what we list. Having an all-around decent goverment is not one of those.






Actions don’t exist in a vacuum & in pure objectivity especially after acknowledging that there is a dispute. Being a thirsty traveller doesn’t make your statements devoid of opinion.

I didn’t state that they were puppet states, I did state Russia has military involvement in the north of Ukraine & had involvement in South Ossetia War. One has to be in wilful denial to dispute that.

 
adamnowek
beers 5211 º places 118 º 02:19 Mon 10/30/2017

Originally posted by SinH4
Originally posted by adamnowek
Any state that has at least one United Nations member state that refuses to recognise it is considered to have limited recognition;

so is Israel in that case?


Yep. Both Koreas, too.