Originally posted by b3shine I agree this has not stifled innovation on the industry level. However I have seen first had on score cards in homebrew competitions where innovation has caused them placing because xyz that they did was not to style. Perfect example is my friend entered a black IPA before the new changes to categories and he basically got back on his score cards that it was a gimmic beer. He knew going in he would lose points for appearance and such, but where is the real feedback that would make his beer better. If he took this to heart he would be just brewing standard IPA to try and win medals. |
I would say that most hombrewers don’t enter competitions and don’t care. People need to stop paying attention to the BJCP outside of competition. They are much better now as an overview of the beer spectrum as it actually exists but it’s still a bad idea to give them authority over styles outside of the judging table (or even at it). |
Originally posted by SHIG That sounds like more an issue with training judges than it does with the BJCP styles. |
Originally posted by SamGamgee Agreed. And I don’t think that many people who don’t compete pay any attention. I certainly don’t. Their failure to stay current with taxonomy (and even provide accurate style guidelines for the styles they do have) is only one reason that they are an effete organization. Even if they would keep current with trends in the industry, their inability to properly train judges makes them even more comical. Remedy those two things and I’d start paying attention to them. As I can’t see that happening, ever, I’ll not be holding my breath. |
The BJCP Style Guidelines were developed for the sole purpose of providing a common language for judging of _amateur brewiing competitions_. They have no meaning or relevance outside of that for _at least_ two reasons: |
Originally posted by HornyDevilThough I may be misreading/misunderstanding Joe’s intent here, he seemed to be arguing against the usefulness of emulating what has come before. Referencing an earlier commenter, I have to wonder why those who wish to be innovators and "break the chains" that are associated with tradition would use words like Gose, Kolsch, Pale Ale, etc. in the first place? You are associating your beer with a tradition by doing such a thing. A related question: Is RateBeer being "oppressive" by insisting that every beer entered is within a style? |
Originally posted by ContemplateBeer Are you suggesting that we do away with style classifications altogether? |
Originally posted by HornyDevilNo... but that such as idea is consistent for proponents of abstraction, since the styles we have listed are largely categories with some sort of traditional definition. |
Originally posted by FooFaa I view that as an entry, entered into the wrong category not necessarily bad judging. Now if a judge commented that this was a gimmick beer that is poor feedback. in the 2008 guidelines, which I think he’s talking about, a black IPA should do poorly in the american ipa category because its out of style in color, aroma, and flavor. That beer should have been entered into Category 23 open, basically where everything that doesn’t fit a defined style should be. |
Originally posted by johnnnniee Agreed completely. To the OP’s question, I judge in BJCP competitions, but I primarily brew specialty beers at home. I don’t believe it has had any effect on my "innovation." How long have the style guidelines been around? Are all homebrewers making the same beer? You need a baseline to judge. With the styles, it is how closely was the beer brewed to that style. If you brew outside of the styles, just enjoy your beer. If you enter in the specialty category, be prepared for more subjectivity. If we did away with the styles, that is what all judging would be: How much did I personally like the beer? There are absolutely instances of bad feedback, poor judging, etc. You also have the same issue everyone has- your perception of a beer dependa on lots of factors, including environmental. We’ve all had fanstastic beers that seemed mediocre because they were compared with phenomenal ones. You try to avoid that as much as possible by using the guidelines, but some of that is inevitable. |
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