Fermenting with Brett and Lager yeast.

Reads 2060 • Replies 26 • Started Saturday, November 14, 2015 3:42:42 PM CT

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fleetwoodfba
15:42 Sat 11/14/2015

I’m thinking of making a beer with brett and German lager yeast. My plan is to start with brett then lager. But I’m wondering if there would be enough food for the brett if I were to add it after lagering to get any character. Any opinions?

 
t0rin0
beers 102 º places 1529 º 17:22 Sat 11/14/2015

That’s exactly what this was

http://www.ratebeer.com/beer/lost-abbey-isabelle-proximus/86542/

and pretty close to what this is ("Mexican lager" yeast but close enough)

http://www.ratebeer.com/beer/lost-abbey-cable-car/76897/

With enough time the bugs will give you something good, but why bother with the lager yeast? The lager yeast is neutral but there’s really no need for it if you’re looking to taste the bugs since they’re capable of fermenting the beer.

 
joeneugs
beers 6371 º places 241 º 19:21 Sat 11/14/2015

Is he using bugs too? He didn’t say, so I’ll assume it’s just Brett which is of course a yeast. So....Brett and lager yeast will not get you Izzy or Cable Car.

What’s your goal in going with Brett first? Brett is pretty clean as a primary strain and will finish off most of the food that lager yeast would, so I’m not sure pitching the lager yeast afterwards would be worth it.

I would use a lower attenuating lager yeast first, let it finish out and then pitch Brett in the secondary. It all depends on what your goal is with the beer though. More details would be great.

 
t0rin0
beers 102 º places 1529 º 20:26 Sat 11/14/2015

I guess I just assumed that he wanted to make a sour beer, and not just looking for a little brett character. If that’s the case then I agree with your logic but I still question why you’d want to use the lager yeast at all. Just use the brett by itself.

 
Zer0
beers 1227 º places 9 º 23:02 Sat 11/14/2015

Why do you assume he wants to make a sour beer? Brett fermentation does not equal sour beer...

 
t0rin0
beers 102 º places 1529 º 23:06 Sat 11/14/2015

Originally posted by Zer0
Why do you assume he wants to make a sour beer? Brett fermentation does not equal sour beer...


And I corrected myself... but I still think it’s pointless to use the lager yeast at all if you want brett flavor.

 
CLevar
places 23 º 23:26 Sat 11/14/2015

Originally posted by t0rin0
Originally posted by Zer0
Why do you assume he wants to make a sour beer? Brett fermentation does not equal sour beer...


And I corrected myself... but I still think it’s pointless to use the lager yeast at all if you want brett flavor.


I don’t know if this is accurate. There have been a number of people that suggest using lager yeast in conjunction with Brett., due perhaps to conversion of some of the S containing compounds thrown by lager yeasts. As an example, NB ferments many of their sours with a lager yeast prior to the addition of souring bacteria and Brett. http://www.newbelgium.com/beer/detail.aspx?id=4e583fd6-95e4-4ea0-908c-4436f5dc8fa8

 
HornyDevil
13:33 Mon 11/16/2015

Originally posted by CLevar
Originally posted by t0rin0
Originally posted by Zer0
Why do you assume he wants to make a sour beer? Brett fermentation does not equal sour beer...


And I corrected myself... but I still think it’s pointless to use the lager yeast at all if you want brett flavor.


I don’t know if this is accurate. There have been a number of people that suggest using lager yeast in conjunction with Brett., due perhaps to conversion of some of the S containing compounds thrown by lager yeasts. As an example, NB ferments many of their sours with a lager yeast prior to the addition of souring bacteria and Brett. http://www.newbelgium.com/beer/detail.aspx?id=4e583fd6-95e4-4ea0-908c-4436f5dc8fa8


I can’t see this producing very prominent Brett character, as lager yeast (at lager temperatures) tend not to produce a high concentration of the vinyl phenols needed for Brett to reduce into their ethyl counterparts. Not saying that it would produce a bad beer, just not an overly "funky" one. That would, however, depend highly on the temperature at which he fermented his beer.

As to the OP’s question, Brett character isn’t from fermentation, it is from conversion of certain chemicals into others, so the presence of fermentables isn’t necessary, but since Brett can ferment more complex sugars than can sacch., there will inevitably be food for it.

 
HornyDevil
14:00 Mon 11/16/2015

Additionally, would love to see a recipe and technique on this beer, even if they are preliminary ones. Something, ANYTHING, to stimulate discussion here would be a godsend.

 
fleetwoodfba
14:28 Mon 11/16/2015

Brewed this Saturday

4.25 # German Pilsner
4 # White Wheat
15 ounces of Munich

.45 Hallertau at 60

OG is 1.035. Pitched White Labs Brett B. Once I get down to around 1.020-15 I’m going to add White Labs lager yeast and put in the fridge. To answer someone’s question as to what I hope to achieve, I’m just experimenting with the combination of yeasts.

 
joeneugs
beers 6371 º places 241 º 14:57 Mon 11/16/2015

Leave it to HD and CLevar to make a geeky subject sound even geekier.

Really though, I don’t think the lager yeast will show up much in this beer since most, if not all of its food will already be gone by the time you pitch it.

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