Help with my IPA recipe

Reads 11535 • Replies 49 • Started Wednesday, January 6, 2010 2:21:13 AM CT

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BBB63
beers 6567 º places 146 º 06:23 Sat 1/9/2010

oh, tilldeath, sorry to turn this into a personal discussion of hops and bitterness. Good luck with your IPA, hope it turns out to be WHAT YOU LIKE.

 
absolutesites
beers 2 º 06:34 Sat 1/9/2010

Originally posted by BBB63
oh, sorry you could not respond to my post of two balanced and enjoyable IPAs, neither of which are hop bombs. I would respond to what IPA you like but since you do not rate I have no idea what you look for in commerical examples of an IPA.


OK . . . I’ll bite.

Favorite IPA? Probably a toss up between Fathead’s Headhunter and Russian River’s Blind Pig. Smuttynose Finest Kind is also good, but not in the same league with the first two.

Favorite Pale Ale? Another toss up between Half Acres Daisy Cutter, Troeg’s Pale Ale, and Great Lakes Burning River.

DIPA? I have to say that I’m pretty disappointed with the vast majority of commercially made DIPAs out there because most of them are too hot and/or too malty and/or not hoppy enough, so they basically are barleywines masquerading as DIPAs. It’s pretty easy to go with the likes of Pliny and Dreadnaught, so that’s what I’ll do.

All that being said, IPAs are not supposed to be balanced. They are hop-forward beers. If someone told me that I should buy a certain IPA because it was balanced, I’d have to make sure to avoid it because that’s not what I’m looking for in an IPA. Now balance in a Pale Ale is another story altogether.

 
BBB63
beers 6567 º places 146 º 07:24 Sat 1/9/2010

Originally posted by absolutesites
Originally posted by BBB63
oh, sorry you could not respond to my post of two balanced and enjoyable IPAs, neither of which are hop bombs. I would respond to what IPA you like but since you do not rate I have no idea what you look for in commercial examples of an IPA.


OK . . . I’ll bite.

Favorite IPA? Probably a toss up between Fathead’s Headhunter and Russian River’s Blind Pig. Smuttynose Finest Kind is also good, but not in the same league with the first two.

Favorite Pale Ale? Another toss up between Half Acres Daisy Cutter, Troeg’s Pale Ale, and Great Lakes Burning River.

DIPA? I have to say that I’m pretty disappointed with the vast majority of commercially made DIPAs out there because most of them are too hot and/or too malty and/or not hoppy enough, so they basically are barleywines masquerading as DIPAs. It’s pretty easy to go with the likes of Pliny and Dreadnaught, so that’s what I’ll do.

All that being said, IPAs are not supposed to be balanced. They are hop-forward beers. If someone told me that I should buy a certain IPA because it was balanced, I’d have to make sure to avoid it because that’s not what I’m looking for in an IPA. Now balance in a Pale Ale is another story altogether.


Blind Pig is indeed a nice hop forward IPA but would not be something I would drink routinely, that said their is a good amount of base malt in that beer to give a small amount of complexity. I dunno know about the other two.

I understand why you like Burning River, it is a hoppy APA and hardly balanced IMO. My rating is quite old on that beer but the last time I had one I was not that impressed, grainy and astringent. The Troegs appears to aggressively hoppied as well. I have yet to rate it however, same with the Half Acre (something I need to fix). It is actually harder to find balanced APA’s than IPA’s. Either the APA as no hop profile or is too aggressively hopped. I like Alpha King but I can not drink more than a couple without seeking out something more malt driven to complete my daily drinking activities.

I do agree that many DIPA can almost be barleywines as the line does blur. I happen to like many of them fresh and hop forward but also like them when the hops fade slightly and they become more balanced. I like Dreadnaught on tap fresh but then like it moderately aged and smoother too. I guess I am strange like that.

There is a difference between lack of hops and hops balanced by a fair amount of malt. No one would say Founders Harvest Ale is missing hops but I find it more than a one-note beer but something that displays a solid malt backbone.

do not fear the malt you hophead

 
absolutesites
beers 2 º 07:36 Sat 1/9/2010

Originally posted by BBB63
There is a difference between lack of hops and hops balanced by a fair amount of malt. No one would say Founders Harvest Ale is missing hops but I find it more than a one-note beer but something that displays a solid malt backbone.


This is because most, if not all, harvest ales use wet hops that lead to a more subtle hop character.

 
FOAMer
beers 45 º places 2 º 10:01 Sun 1/10/2010

On an interesting note to this discussion in the latest issue of Zymurgy the article on the Sierra Nevada Beer Camp had three homebrewed beers measured for IBUs in the SN lab and the following are the results

Beer Measured IBUs Rager Garetz Tinseth
Best Bitter 21.1 26.2 16.5 22.3
Barleywine 65.6 98.7 61.5 64.9
DIPA 61.9 122.5 85.5 88.1

It is my understanding that the Rager is better for partial boils and Tinseth is best for full wort boils. The net reslut is that Tinseth was with in 1-2 IBUs for two of the beers and while off on the DIPA not the half as some report the formulas to be off.

As a result I would not call these formulas total CRAP

 
absolutesites
beers 2 º 17:14 Sun 1/10/2010

Originally posted by FOAMer
On an interesting note to this discussion in the latest issue of Zymurgy the article on the Sierra Nevada Beer Camp had three homebrewed beers measured for IBUs in the SN lab and the following are the results

Beer Measured IBUs Rager Garetz Tinseth
Best Bitter 21.1 26.2 16.5 22.3
Barleywine 65.6 98.7 61.5 64.9
DIPA 61.9 122.5 85.5 88.1

It is my understanding that the Rager is better for partial boils and Tinseth is best for full wort boils. The net reslut is that Tinseth was with in 1-2 IBUs for two of the beers and while off on the DIPA not the half as some report the formulas to be off.

As a result I would not call these formulas total CRAP


As you point out, the problem with these formulas occurs when solubility becomes an issue. They need to compensate for that, but have apparently not found a way to do so.

 
FOAMer
beers 45 º places 2 º 17:26 Sun 1/10/2010

Originally posted by absolutesites
Originally posted by FOAMer
On an interesting note to this discussion in the latest issue of Zymurgy the article on the Sierra Nevada Beer Camp had three homebrewed beers measured for IBUs in the SN lab and the following are the results

Beer Measured IBUs Rager Garetz Tinseth
Best Bitter 21.1 26.2 16.5 22.3
Barleywine 65.6 98.7 61.5 64.9
DIPA 61.9 122.5 85.5 88.1

It is my understanding that the Rager is better for partial boils and Tinseth is best for full wort boils. The net reslut is that Tinseth was with in 1-2 IBUs for two of the beers and while off on the DIPA not the half as some report the formulas to be off.

As a result I would not call these formulas total CRAP


As you point out, the problem with these formulas occurs when solubility becomes an issue. They need to compensate for that, but have apparently not found a way to do so.



Personally I think it is more that the solubility issues that are a problem for us. Age of the hops the condition they are kept in are bigger issues. Year old hops not kept under ideal conditions can loose over half their AAs in that time.

 
absolutesites
beers 2 º 04:06 Mon 1/11/2010

Originally posted by FOAMer
Originally posted by absolutesites
Originally posted by FOAMer
On an interesting note to this discussion in the latest issue of Zymurgy the article on the Sierra Nevada Beer Camp had three homebrewed beers measured for IBUs in the SN lab and the following are the results

Beer Measured IBUs Rager Garetz Tinseth
Best Bitter 21.1 26.2 16.5 22.3
Barleywine 65.6 98.7 61.5 64.9
DIPA 61.9 122.5 85.5 88.1

It is my understanding that the Rager is better for partial boils and Tinseth is best for full wort boils. The net reslut is that Tinseth was with in 1-2 IBUs for two of the beers and while off on the DIPA not the half as some report the formulas to be off.

As a result I would not call these formulas total CRAP


As you point out, the problem with these formulas occurs when solubility becomes an issue. They need to compensate for that, but have apparently not found a way to do so.



Personally I think it is more that the solubility issues that are a problem for us. Age of the hops the condition they are kept in are bigger issues. Year old hops not kept under ideal conditions can loose over half their AAs in that time.


Point taken, but these scales treat hop additions as if they are additive ad infinitum while they are obviously not

 
wunderbier
beers 1434 º places 17 º 05:25 Mon 1/11/2010

Originally posted by absolutesites
Originally posted by FOAMer
Originally posted by absolutesites
Originally posted by FOAMer
On an interesting note to this discussion in the latest issue of Zymurgy the article on the Sierra Nevada Beer Camp had three homebrewed beers measured for IBUs in the SN lab and the following are the results

Beer Measured IBUs Rager Garetz Tinseth
Best Bitter 21.1 26.2 16.5 22.3
Barleywine 65.6 98.7 61.5 64.9
DIPA 61.9 122.5 85.5 88.1

It is my understanding that the Rager is better for partial boils and Tinseth is best for full wort boils. The net reslut is that Tinseth was with in 1-2 IBUs for two of the beers and while off on the DIPA not the half as some report the formulas to be off.

As a result I would not call these formulas total CRAP


As you point out, the problem with these formulas occurs when solubility becomes an issue. They need to compensate for that, but have apparently not found a way to do so.



Personally I think it is more that the solubility issues that are a problem for us. Age of the hops the condition they are kept in are bigger issues. Year old hops not kept under ideal conditions can loose over half their AAs in that time.


Point taken, but these scales treat hop additions as if they are additive ad infinitum while they are obviously not

I thought the data becomes too non-linear and system dependent at higher IBUs making further refinement of the equation pointless, if not impossible. No?

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