Originally posted by Benzai
Originally posted by wheresthepath
Joe, I just wanted to say thanks for all the hard work you're clearly putting in on this - it is appreciated, and there are starting to be some positive improvements to the site. In particular your regular progress updates are very helpful.
Change is always difficult to accept, and there are always more grumbles than compliments - you must be pretty thick skinned to keep going given the nature of some of the forum posts this year. Whilst I prefer "proper" rates and stats, if we have to add badges and ticks to grow RB then so be it - that's better than losing RB altogether. Maybe something can be done to encourage new members to move from ticking to rating as and when they're ready though.
Anyway, keep plugging away Joe, and chill and have a beer to keep you going (and rate it!).
Cheers!
Yes, this. Keep it up Joe.
Me to. You know you can count on me to grumble when i really dont like something, but im also open to change, in facrt i agree we need to change. Ive no fear of being an untappd clone, but im also no concerns with taking some of that on board.
Im loving the new forums. The like button alone has seen a fair bit of use from me :-)
I addore the polls. and wonder what others will use them for going forward, and if we can engage the userbase on a grand scale, i think we can get a lot of insight on memembers thoughts.
looking forward to loging issues being sorted and see inmore over there.
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Originally posted by cgarvieuk
Originally posted by harrisoni
Currently my daily usage of the site via mobile either through the mobile website or either of the 2 apps is as poor as i can remember. I hate the push to the new app when it doesn't fulfil my needs.
The people on the site remain the reason i hang around. The technology is letting us all down.
I dont say this lightly as i love this site. But at the moment my user experience is significantly sub optimal.
agree its not great at the moment, but i suspect that's as code written by volunteers, probably undocumented is taken over by a new development team, and should settle down. but certainly not as bad as far ascim concerned as the months we were hacked and site was up and down like a yo-yo
The new release of the new app has improved the Search facility. I actually rated a beer using the new app yesterday. Still odd that you have to give a score, then do your description, then go back and score it again, but it was an ok user experience. |
Originally posted by joet
Originally posted by SarkyNorthener
What my concern is, is the untappd direction it seems to be going in and I am worried this will be done at the detriment of useful stats.
I guess this is all very strange thinking to me in that it lacks considerable imagination.
There were a few people who, back in 2004, didn't understand how RateBeer and Beer Advocate could coexist and they very firmly believed one of us would soon die. Those same people believed everyone who liked beer would belong to one site or the other. They also assumed the market was fixed and we were fighting over share. Some of those same people either suggested or feared that the way to stay alive would be to simply replicate the functions of the other site.
They were very, very wrong. I knew so then and everyone knows so now. Untappd wouldn't even exist if these opinions and assumptions were even remotely correct.
So I don't really feel this is an addressable fear. It stems from a limited idea about what we are, what human behavior is out there, and where we're going to adapt to it. It assumes there are few options. It assumes cataclysm. It assumes a market share fight. None of these assumptions make any sense.
I think that what SarkyNorthener is suggesting is that if RB moves closer to UT, then the reason why folks like RB over UT will start to diminish. I tried UT shortly after it launched, and decided it wasn't for me, but over time I have found that UT has way more beers listed, and more people active where I live (I find this out when I have a local beer which is not on RB, do a search for it, and it comes up on UT, along with all the people from Southampton who have drunk it). Because I live in a non-RB active area (ie, outside of London), I very rarely meet up with RB people these days. I have friends from RB, but I can keep in touch with them via Facebook or messenger. Indeed, there are a number of friends I have made through RB who are no longer on RB, but with whom I stay in contact. So I can still keep in touch with the friends I have made in the past, but for new ones I suppose I will start looking to UT. What still keeps me here is that I like the ethos and layout of the site. But if it starts to become too much like UT, then any advantage RB has will be lost, and I will likely transfer.
I have been here a long time, and like to think that I helped build the site. So if I'm thinking this way, then likely others will be as well. I understand the desire to make RB more commercial, and if that's what you have to do then so be it. But if I was in charge of RB, I'd be moving it more into beer geekiness, and less into social networking, because UT has got that corner of the market. Beer geekiness is what RB has always been about. Take away the geekiness, and we might as well just go to UT, which is way bigger and way more stable. |
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Originally posted by SilkTork
but over time I have found that UT has way more beers listed, and more people active where I live (I find this out when I have a local beer which is not on RB, do a search for it, and it comes up on UT, along with all the people from Southampton who have drunk it).
And thats what needs adressed. RB used to be the goto place for beer info, so even for non Memebers its was a goto site. Now thats Untappd.
We have to ask why Untappd has way more users
Originally posted by SilkTork
Because I live in a non-RB active area (ie, outside of London), I very rarely meet up with RB people these days. I have friends from RB, but I can keep in touch with them via Facebook or messenger. Indeed, there are a number of friends I have made through RB who are no longer on RB,
This is one of the things i think RB wins on is the Forums, you can make friends. Though as RB has been hit from one side by untappd, its been hit from teh other by Social media
Originally posted by SilkTork
But if it starts to become too much like UT, then any advantage RB has will be lost, and I will likely transfer.
I have been here a long time, and like to think that I helped build the site. So if I'm thinking this way, then likely others will be as well. I understand the desire to make RB more commercial, and if that's what you have to do then so be it. But if I was in charge of RB, I'd be moving it more into beer geekiness, and less into social networking, because UT has got that corner of the market. Beer geekiness is what RB has always been about. Take away the geekiness, and we might as well just go to UT, which is way bigger and way more stable.
I dont think, were gonna end up as Untappd clone. just some features. I dont see the community going, i dont se those that want to review not being able to.
Yeah Getting more stats etc may well help with that geekiness. |
Originally posted by joet
3) We beg your pardon if you're upset by the dust and dirt of change. It is the nature of the universe to change. The Buddhist concept of non attachment can be applied to decrease the negative effects of change. We are revving our engine and rapidly increasing the number of changes weekly to very high levels. I apologize if this is unsettling, but we have big dreams!
I think more communication would salve a lot of concerns about what is happening. Communication in terms of monthly updates about what change you are aiming for, what is the objective for the next batch of changes. For example I've read loads of recent posts about ticks and rates here, and posted a few myself and yet I am still no wiser as to what the endgame is here. Some upfront comms from you would have adverted a lot of this speculation about what should and should not be happening on RB with ticks and rates. At the moment it feels like looking out the car window to try and work out what the drivers destination is, you can see a moving landscape but you don't know where your going? The other aspect I would dearly love communicated is a central user-accessible problem area, somewhere where known bugs are described and with some level priority assigned to fixing them. This would assure me that problems were under control and issues not forgotten about. If you are pursuing a programme of rapid development and change, I think this would be invaluable. I would also venture this would greatly reduce repeat reporting of the same issue and still more forum traffic where people are seeking some clarity. I've no idea if you have the time to communicate more or if someone from ZX could take that role. Perhaps some volunteer admins could be brought in to the loop and do the communications. If we have some idea what your doing and when and that problems are logged and prioritised then I believe there would be a lot less heat around change and direction. |
Originally posted by madmitch76
Originally posted by joet
3) We beg your pardon if you're upset by the dust and dirt of change. It is the nature of the universe to change. The Buddhist concept of non attachment can be applied to decrease the negative effects of change. We are revving our engine and rapidly increasing the number of changes weekly to very high levels. I apologize if this is unsettling, but we have big dreams!
I think more communication would salve a lot of concerns about what is happening.
Communication in terms of monthly updates about what change you are aiming for, what is the objective for the next batch of changes. For example I've read loads of recent posts about ticks and rates here, and posted a few myself and yet I am still no wiser as to what the endgame is here. Some upfront comms from you would have adverted a lot of this speculation about what should and should not be happening on RB with ticks and rates. At the moment it feels like looking out the car window to try and work out what the drivers destination is, you can see a moving landscape but you don't know where your going?
The other aspect I would dearly love communicated is a central user-accessible problem area, somewhere where known bugs are described and with some level priority assigned to fixing them. This would assure me that problems were under control and issues not forgotten about. If you are pursuing a programme of rapid development and change, I think this would be invaluable. I would also venture this would greatly reduce repeat reporting of the same issue and still more forum traffic where people are seeking some clarity.
I've no idea if you have the time to communicate more or if someone from ZX could take that role. Perhaps some volunteer admins could be brought in to the loop and do the communications. If we have some idea what your doing and when and that problems are logged and prioritised then I believe there would be a lot less heat around change and direction.
Total agree |
OK, weird/glitchy post of the day from me. I recently found 3 rated beers in "ticks only" and edited the rating summary so that it would count as a regular rating. However, I still show that I should have one more tick, but I see nothing under "ticks only" or "old ticks" - am I missing something here? |
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Originally posted by Chudwick
OK, weird/glitchy post of the day from me. I recently found 3 rated beers in "ticks only" and edited the rating summary so that it would count as a regular rating. However, I still show that I should have one more tick, but I see nothing under "ticks only" or "old ticks" - am I missing something here?
I can't see my ticks either :( |
Joe, I'd like to start by saying, "Keep up the good work!"
I've been using this site for 12 years now. Honestly, all the changes that I can think of over the years have been a step in the right direction.
Regarding Untappd, what they lack in "quality reviews" they make up for in sheer numbers of ratings. It's hard to really say if 1000 wordless Untappd ratings are as accurate as 6 lengthy typed reviews. People could make the case either way.
Personally, I think it'd be better for the long term health of the site to let people score without writing a review, which is how BA functions if I'm not mistaken. A long time ago, I'd say that the 6 reviews with "more thought" put into them might be superior. Now I'm not so sure. You get one "bad" bottle at a tasting and there's ~4 bad reviews, with 2 great reviews from two other raters. On top of that, those 6 reviews might take 6 months to procure. Meanwhile, Untappd's numbers could very well pass 500 unique ratings in those same 6 months of the same beer. Should I trust the weighted average of 2.8 on RB over Untappd with a 3.8 of that same beer?
Rotten Tomatoes provides users with the option to view the overall scores of films by "All Critics" and "Top Critics" - perhaps provide the overall/style scores that can be viewed by "all ratings" and "reviews"? Then have all lists calculate both scores. That could encourage new users to come in, and if they remain active they might be interested in actually reviewing, even if it's just a handful of beers... On the flip side, it could also retain people who have been "burnt out" and don't think they have time to put a thoughtful review anymore but want to still remain on the site (instead of moving elsewhere). |
Originally posted by radagast83
Joe, I'd like to start by saying, "Keep up the good work!"
Rotten Tomatoes provides users with the option to view the overall scores of films by "All Critics" and "Top Critics" - perhaps provide the overall/style scores that can be viewed by "all ratings" and "reviews"? Then have all lists calculate both scores. That could encourage new users to come in, and if they remain active they might be interested in actually reviewing, even if it's just a handful of beers... On the flip side, it could also retain people who have been "burnt out" and don't think they have time to put a thoughtful review anymore but want to still remain on the site (instead of moving elsewhere).
like like like. where's the little heart symbol! |
