More nerdy science stuff- This time, Lacto!

Reads 3045 • Replies 34 • Started Sunday, April 17, 2016 3:11:51 PM CT

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GarethYoung
beers 1111 º places 27 º 04:02 Tue 4/19/2016

Originally posted by CLevar
Not much reason to do this in the brewery, but it’s something I’m working on in the lab. Frankly, acidification down to 3.6 in a dry beer with 20-30 IBU in three weeks is enough as far as we are concerned. Anything more and things start to clash. So I’m fairly happy where things are at as far as IBU tolerance is.


Yeah, that pH drop with those IBUs is impressive, and I wouldn’t want much lower than 3.6 myself. I was thinking more that increased hop tolerance would speed up your souring, rather than just lower the final pH, but I suppose it’s not always practical in a brewery.


We’ve played around a bit and target 3.2-3.5 in 16 hours. We actually just got a tank specifically for propping this strain and will now be able to pitch ~8% instead of 3%, but the same practical problem will exist. To explain- we have a 7.5 bbl system and brew into 15bbl FVs.

So what this means is:
Day one-mash batch one, lauter, boil 20 min, cool to 107, pitch LAB (2pm)
Day two-harvest LAB, boil batch one, mash batch two, lauter, boil 20 min, cool to 107, pitch LAB (2-3pm)
Day three- harvest LAB, boil batch two

We can get other things done of course, and have (when feeling especially saucy) knocked out a double brewday in addition on day three. But unless we can pick up a whole day in there...

We have, for re-pitched LAB on day two, gotten the pH down to 3.5ish by 8pm or so the day of pitching. But it’s not *quite* low enough, and firing up the kettle and mashing in another batch at that time would mean I’m brewing till 5am and thus worthless for getting anything done the next day.


I see. That would make it a pest. Do you think making one batch very acidic then blending 50/50 with a clean batch would be an option tha might speed things up?

 
GarethYoung
beers 1111 º places 27 º 04:03 Tue 4/19/2016

By the way, you need to cave in to facebook and join Milk the Funk. You’d be like a pig in shit.

 
HornyDevil
05:11 Tue 4/19/2016

Originally posted by GarethYoung
By the way, you need to cave in to facebook and join Milk the Funk. You’d be like a pig in shit.


His input and perspective would certainly be VERY welcome. By myself and many others.

But he won’t do it.

Too stubborn.

 
GarethYoung
beers 1111 º places 27 º 06:35 Tue 4/19/2016

Originally posted by HornyDevil
Originally posted by GarethYoung
By the way, you need to cave in to facebook and join Milk the Funk. You’d be like a pig in shit.


His input and perspective would certainly be VERY welcome. By myself and many others.

But he won’t do it.

Too stubborn.


I think he’s too scared to join.

 
CLevar
places 23 º 07:13 Tue 4/19/2016

Originally posted by GarethYoung
Originally posted by HornyDevil
Originally posted by GarethYoung
By the way, you need to cave in to facebook and join Milk the Funk. You’d be like a pig in shit.


His input and perspective would certainly be VERY welcome. By myself and many others.

But he won’t do it.

Too stubborn.


I think he’s too scared to join.


Exactly.


Actually, this is all part of my grand plan to drive traffic to JoeTs site so he can build his cabin in VT and invites me to drink hote goldes with JesusInVT

 
GarethYoung
beers 1111 º places 27 º 07:23 Tue 4/19/2016

Originally posted by CLevar
Originally posted by GarethYoung
Originally posted by HornyDevil
Originally posted by GarethYoung
By the way, you need to cave in to facebook and join Milk the Funk. You’d be like a pig in shit.


His input and perspective would certainly be VERY welcome. By myself and many others.

But he won’t do it.

Too stubborn.


I think he’s too scared to join.


Exactly.


Actually, this is all part of my grand plan to drive traffic to JoeTs site so he can build his cabin in VT and invites me to drink hote goldes with JesusInVT


Sounds delightful. I’ll bring the twiggy sock flavoured fuggles.

 
CLevar
places 23 º 23:40 Tue 4/19/2016

Kettle @ 3.24 7 hours in. 11.3P, 107 F, 8% gen2. Whoops.

 
konstifik
beers 573 º places 37 º 02:46 Wed 4/20/2016

Originally posted by CLevar
I actually think the data indicate the strain is *more* tolerant at the 2P concentration. If you look at the third panel on the figure I posted, you can see that the pH drops faster in the 2P wort than the 10P wort. Also, if you look at the different concentrations in the first and second panels, it seems like there is a pretty good "dose response" in the second (10P wort), whereas for the first (2P wort) the strain does about the same regardless of 5-30 IBU. Make sense?

I have a sorta explanation for this, but I want to do more reading first to see if I am on the right track.


Perhaps the faster drop in the 2P wort could be explained by slower relative ion uptake from the Brett?

My theory was that there will be a dose response in the 2P wort as well, but that you will find it somewhere between 0 and 5 IBU and thus it didn’t show in your experiment. My theory also holds that the 10P wort would hit a point where the dose response stops and it would just behave the same regardless of how much more IBU’s there is in the wort.

This theory assumes there is a linear behavior depending on the gravity to bitterness ratio (up to that point where the dose response stops), which of course may very well be a false assumption.

 
HornyDevil
05:27 Wed 4/20/2016

Originally posted by GarethYoung
Originally posted by HornyDevil
Originally posted by GarethYoung
By the way, you need to cave in to facebook and join Milk the Funk. You’d be like a pig in shit.


His input and perspective would certainly be VERY welcome. By myself and many others.

But he won’t do it.

Too stubborn.


I think he’s too scared to join.


Hehehe. I should play off of this, but I won’t. The old me would have, though. I’m much kinder and gentler now.

I look at it this way, you post this type of stuff here on RB and there are literally a handful of people who read it and think that it’s cool. Some of those people might use the information, but most of them won’t.

On MTF, there are literally hundreds of people who can directly use the information, from technically inclined homebrewers to professional brewers to brewing chemists and microbiologists. You know, people who can actually understand and apply the work AND maybe even take it a step farther or give you constructive input on it.

Here . . . crickets.

 
CLevar
places 23 º 11:50 Wed 4/20/2016

Originally posted by HornyDevil
Originally posted by GarethYoung
Originally posted by HornyDevil
Originally posted by GarethYoung
By the way, you need to cave in to facebook and join Milk the Funk. You’d be like a pig in shit.


His input and perspective would certainly be VERY welcome. By myself and many others.

But he won’t do it.

Too stubborn.


I think he’s too scared to join.


Hehehe. I should play off of this, but I won’t. The old me would have, though. I’m much kinder and gentler now.

I look at it this way, you post this type of stuff here on RB and there are literally a handful of people who read it and think that it’s cool. Some of those people might use the information, but most of them won’t.

On MTF, there are literally hundreds of people who can directly use the information, from technically inclined homebrewers to professional brewers to brewing chemists and microbiologists. You know, people who can actually understand and apply the work AND maybe even take it a step farther or give you constructive input on it.

Here . . . crickets.


Feel free to pass it along. I don’t mind, just attach my name to it so people can track me down if they are interested.

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