Say it aint so: Craft beer distributors support Prohibition

Reads 18098 • Replies 86 • Started Saturday, September 18, 2010 4:25:27 PM CT

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errantnight
09:50 Wed 9/22/2010

Originally posted by JK
Originally posted by joet
Originally posted by JK
No I’m not.

Merely that you want drugs to be legal is not a basis for Ratebeer to come and say, "smoke up!"


Where others see JK nonsense, I see a tee shirt idea.


No nonsense, Joe. You are the guy here, and I think it is socially irresponsible to even appear to endorse an illegal activity.


You’re painting with such a broad stroke now that you really can’t be taken seriously.

So by that logic, endorsing murder or a hate crime would be right there with perhaps, possibly, encouraging people to smoke weed, even if all you were saying is I support an existing movement to legalize it. And if alcohol became illegal again, you’d think it was socially irresponsible the day it became illegal to support drinking.

In short, there is no logic. If you’re going to short-circuit attempts at debate because you’re concerned somebody might misinterpret your position on a topic, or if you’re going to argue moral and social issues and base your system of right and wrong based on what the existing laws are, then you should avoid all such discussions. Just live in fear of ever possibly transgressing a social more.

Or, you should drop the disingenuous nonsense and engage like an adult.

 
JK
beers 7218 º places 442 º 10:34 Wed 9/22/2010

Originally posted by mowz
Originally posted by JK
I think it is socially irresponsible to even appear to endorse an illegal activity.

So you would have been a staunch supporter of prohibition in the 20’s, but then would have found no problem with it once it was repealed in ’33?

By this logic, you’re opposed to the use of marijuana now, but once California (and probably other states that would follow suit) makes it legal, you’d be in support of this former illegal drug?


By that logic, maybe.

But I you made that all up.

Regardless of my position on legalization, it is not socially responsible for this website used by so many in the industry to take stand for something that is currently illegal. Even the guy from Sierra Nevada says it is up to the voters and they take no position. Why should Ratebeer have a position?

 
JK
beers 7218 º places 442 º 10:37 Wed 9/22/2010

Originally posted by mowz
Originally posted by JK
I think it is socially irresponsible to even appear to endorse an illegal activity.

So you would have been a staunch supporter of prohibition in the 20’s, but then would have found no problem with it once it was repealed in ’33?

By this logic, you’re opposed to the use of marijuana now, but once California (and probably other states that would follow suit) makes it legal, you’d be in support of this former illegal drug?


By that logic, maybe.

But I you made that all up.

Regardless of my position on legalization, it is not socially responsible for this website used by so many in the industry to take stand for something that is currently illegal. Even the guy from Sierra Nevada says it is up to the voters and they take no position. Why should Ratebeer have a position?

 
mowz
12:10 Wed 9/22/2010

Originally posted by JK
But I you made that all up.

Huh? Say again?

 
joet
admin
beers 2900 º places 125 º 12:24 Wed 9/22/2010

Originally posted by JK
Regardless of my position on legalization, it is not socially responsible for this website used by so many in the industry to take stand for something that is currently illegal. Even the guy from Sierra Nevada says it is up to the voters and they take no position. Why should Ratebeer have a position?



"Prohibition will work great injury to the cause of temperance. It is a species of intemperance within itself, for it goes beyond the bounds of reason in that it attempts to control a man’s appetite by legislation, and makes a crime out of things that are not crimes. A Prohibition law strikes a blow at the very principles upon which our government was founded."

Abraham Lincoln (1809-65), U.S. President.
Speech, 18 Dec. 1840, to Illinois House of Representatives


Your logic is still circular in that you are saying because an act is illegal, discussion of its legality can’t be made because it is illegal. That’s total nonsense. In the same way, discussion of beer’s legalization during Prohibition shouldn’t have been tolerated because beer was illegal. Again, nonsense.

Let’s elevate this discussion, shall we?


There are three reasons, already mentioned earlier in this thread, about why the issue is relevant to RateBeer.


1) First, political action by brewers affects their brand image and community standing. Responsible corporate citizenry by a brewery is relevant to RateBeer regardless of its public sphere - whether it’s a fundraiser for the Surfrider Foundation, moving to all organic malts, powering the brewery with wind power or getting involved with Pints For Prostates.

This issue is relevant simply because it is newsworthy.

Coors encouraged the organization of its gay and lesbian employees into the Lesbian and Gay Employee Resource (LAGER) in 1993. Getting at another of your arguments, applauding this action doesn’t mean that RateBeer is advocating gay sex for everyone, even straight people. That’s nonsense. One can advocate a freedom without advocating the exercise of it. (See the "patron saint of American Conservatism" William F Buckley on marijuana prohibition)

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"Until we are all free, we are none of us free."
— Emma Lazarus


2) Second, Prohibition is an issue we as an industry understand. The beer industry in America was totally destroyed by a well-meaning group that believed their version of morality should and could dictate the behavior of free Americans.

The beer industry then as we are now advocated basic human freedoms for everyone and acting against unreasonable prohibitions. We as an industry know that such policies make crimes out of things that are not crimes, in fact foment organized and violent crime by the government’s lack of regulation and are a blight on the public safety and public health.

Because we know the detriment of such laws, we should be the ones standing up to them. Indeed we have a special moral responsibility to do so!

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3) Lastly, the craft beer side of the beer industry distinguishes itself from the larger beer industry with positive, cooperative and non-predatory corporate practices. The public comments by the CBBD made it very clear that the intention of the political action had nothing to do with the public safety but with control by this part of the industry of a perceived threat.

This kind of suppression is not an acceptable business practice in our brewing culture. It was RateBeer’s role as a consumer advocacy group and industry news provider to offer an opportunity for craft brewers to act in accordance, or not, with what we as consumers believe are acceptable practices.

 
joet
admin
beers 2900 º places 125 º 12:28 Wed 9/22/2010

Greg Koch long ago opened my eyes to the idea that craft beer wasn’t just a better product. It is better companies making better products.

Companies that don’t water down their beer, don’t try to squeeze the little guy off the shelves and off the trucks, don’t lobby for tax laws that hurt craft brewers, etc. - that’s craft beer.

It’s a compelling message.

Craft beer is not just good tasting - it’s good fighting against not so good.

 
HogTownHarry
beers 8983 º places 28 º 12:30 Wed 9/22/2010

 
NoiZe
beers 2322 º places 77 º 12:53 Wed 9/22/2010

I think it’s strange that beer distributors are doing this. Why have an opinion, and if they do why negative?

In the Netherlands marijuana is legal to buy (but in small quantities, also counts for shops).

But in the Netherlands not everyone is a drug addict. The opposite is true, in the Netherlands less people are using marijuana then in other countries who banned marijuana. Less people have problems with marijuana, less crime around the pot business.

Alcohol, cars and tobacco kill far more people then pot. Why not ban those?

[room for conclusion]

 
mowz
16:12 Wed 9/22/2010

Originally posted by NoiZe
I think it’s strange that beer distributors are doing this. Why have an opinion, and if they do why negative?

In the Netherlands marijuana is legal to buy (but in small quantities, also counts for shops).

But in the Netherlands not everyone is a drug addict. The opposite is true, in the Netherlands less people are using marijuana then in other countries who banned marijuana. Less people have problems with marijuana, less crime around the pot business.

Alcohol, cars and tobacco kill far more people then pot. Why not ban those?

[room for conclusion]

Because of a stubborn government stuck in their old ways. I’d bring religion into this, but the fire’s hot enough.

 
sloth
beers 3381 º places 100 º 17:15 Wed 9/22/2010

Lotsa babble.