BJCP Question

Reads 1122 • Replies 27 • Started Monday, March 27, 2006 2:09:47 PM CT

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goldtwins
beers 4319 º places 5 º 14:09 Mon 3/27/2006

So I get my scores for my imperial stout. I scored a 33 and took 3rd place. They said I would have placed higher had I entered as a foreign extra stout. One of the only other "negative" comments was that it didn’t burn and needed more alc. It is 10%ABV . Just hides well.

I have never thought about entering as a FES since the only ones I had ever tried commercially seemed tart and not that big. If I read the BJCP style guide FES and IS seem very very close. Does anybody know the difference accodring to the guidelines ONLY. I know it is difficult without trying my beer but what qualities should I look for to determine which group to enter it in for future comps.

 
Brodie
beers 540 º places 21 º 14:38 Mon 3/27/2006

From the foreign stout description:

"Think of the style as either a scaled- up dry and/or sweet stout, or a scaled-down Imperial stout without the late hops."

Basically there isn’t going to be a clear demarcation between the two styles. The highest OG on a foreign extra should be 1.075, which is the minimum OG for an imperial. This, and that the imperial is allowed to have more hop character, are the only real differences.

If it’s 10% ABV, it was entered in the right category. The judge never sees the vital statistics on the beer, so his/her comments are just based on a subjective impression of what he/she tastes. Lots of variables can influence that. The judges might have had a bunch of gooey, alcohol monsters before your beer, making yours seem too weak for the style. Who knows? Different judges in a different competition will score it differently.

 
FOAMer
beers 45 º places 2 º 15:42 Mon 3/27/2006

Also keep in mind that on average a bigger beers in a catagory will do better that the ones on the lower end of the gravity scale. I know it is not right, but as someone who has judged many compeitions over the years, and been involved as both head judge and organizer, this is one of the unfortunate truths about competitions. As a BJCP Judge I do my best to not fall into this trap, or let the table I am on either. But I am afraid it is something that happens and I have been guilty of.

 
BückDich
beers 5464 º places 215 º 15:47 Mon 3/27/2006

Sorry, I can’t hold my tongue, but that’s rediculous.

 
goldtwins
beers 4319 º places 5 º 15:51 Mon 3/27/2006

Ok so if the body isn’t chewy and you can’t smell or taste the hops, other then some bitterness on the finish it is an FES. They seem so close. It just makes me nervous switching the sub cat. I don’t want to get it back saying should have been imp stout. But I guess your right. I am better off being a bigger FES than a smaller IS. I’ll post what happens in a month.

 
aracauna
beers 3901 º places 102 º 16:00 Mon 3/27/2006

Originally posted by goldtwins
Ok so if the body isn’t chewy and you can’t smell or taste the hops, other then some bitterness on the finish it is an FES. They seem so close. It just makes me nervous switching the sub cat. I don’t want to get it back saying should have been imp stout. But I guess your right. I am better off being a bigger FES than a smaller IS. I’ll post what happens in a month.


I’ve actually entered a beer that I was unsure of in both categories just to see which category it fared better in. I did it once with my IPA after the previous year’s version was criticized about being too hoppy. On that one the new batch was good enough to take 1st place as an IPA and it came in middle of the pack as an APA. A botched imperial stout that wasn’t really strong enough missed the FES category (too hoppy) I’ve entered as both Imperial Stout and American stout just to see how it scored in each category. Given the results in the past, I’ll be entering it into BrewMaster’s as an American Stout. I actually think this is a good bit of learning experience, especially when you’ve got a recipe you created on your own and you’re unsure of how it fit to the style.

Jacob

 
FOAMer
beers 45 º places 2 º 16:03 Mon 3/27/2006

Originally posted by Bück Dich
Sorry, I can’t hold my tongue, but that’s rediculous.


What is rediculous?

 
goldtwins
beers 4319 º places 5 º 16:17 Mon 3/27/2006

Originally posted by aracauna
Originally posted by goldtwins
Ok so if the body isn’t chewy and you can’t smell or taste the hops, other then some bitterness on the finish it is an FES. They seem so close. It just makes me nervous switching the sub cat. I don’t want to get it back saying should have been imp stout. But I guess your right. I am better off being a bigger FES than a smaller IS. I’ll post what happens in a month.


I’ve actually entered a beer that I was unsure of in both categories just to see which category it fared better in. I did it once with my IPA after the previous year’s version was criticized about being too hoppy. On that one the new batch was good enough to take 1st place as an IPA and it came in middle of the pack as an APA. A botched imperial stout that wasn’t really strong enough missed the FES category (too hoppy) I’ve entered as both Imperial Stout and American stout just to see how it scored in each category. Given the results in the past, I’ll be entering it into BrewMaster’s as an American Stout. I actually think this is a good bit of learning experience, especially when you’ve got a recipe you created on your own and you’re unsure of how it fit to the style.

Jacob


Normally I would do that. But i think the FES and IMP get judged together many times. I wouldn’t do two entries if they might be judged together.

 
BückDich
beers 5464 º places 215 º 16:21 Mon 3/27/2006

Originally posted by FOAMer
Originally posted by Bück Dich
Sorry, I can’t hold my tongue, but that’s rediculous.

What is rediculous?

Mainly the whole scenario, but specifically that it should burn due to higher alcohol. That’s not what most people look for in a beer if I’m not mistaken.

 
Zuchinnicat
places 3 º 17:08 Mon 3/27/2006

As a BJCP judge and a long time comp. brewer I have come to realize that most homebrew comps are a bit of a crap shoot. You need a good beer to win but just because you have a good beer doesn’t mean you will win. A very well balanced beer will often get shafted in strong or hoppy categories. Let’s face it; your palate gets trashed pretty fast judging IPAs and such. The most bitter / hoppy beer will often win because that is what judges want and they can’t find it after 4 or 5 samples unless it smacks them in the face.
If you don’t have to ship, try double entering all your beers in these catagories. I wouldn’t worry about split panels and such. I have a friend who just double entered 11 beers in a huge comp. His IPA got a 38 and a 26 from the same 3 judges, 2 BJCP. The spreads were amazing.

 
erway
beers 1004 º places 41 º 17:46 Mon 3/27/2006

Originally posted by Zuchinnicat
As a BJCP judge and a long time comp. brewer I have come to realize that most homebrew comps are a bit of a crap shoot. You need a good beer to win but just because you have a good beer doesn’t mean you will win. A very well balanced beer will often get shafted in strong or hoppy categories. Let’s face it; your palate gets trashed pretty fast judging IPAs and such. The most bitter / hoppy beer will often win because that is what judges want and they can’t find it after 4 or 5 samples unless it smacks them in the face.
If you don’t have to ship, try double entering all your beers in these catagories. I wouldn’t worry about split panels and such. I have a friend who just double entered 11 beers in a huge comp. His IPA got a 38 and a 26 from the same 3 judges, 2 BJCP. The spreads were amazing.


I could not agree with Bill more. It is shocking some of the comments that you will get back from some of these judges.

As far as your beer, 10% is way over what qualifies as an FES. It sounds like they were expecting a Dark Lord.

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