three floyds Aberdeen. wow. the Uk is looking up |
Originally posted by MesandSim
Ok, as for the lottery of choosing something from a nondescript pump clip, I’d like to think it was the responsibility of the publican to make sure their punters knew what they were being offered. In an ideal world, said publican should have made an informed choice on a beer he thinks people would like to drink, or better still, should be introduced to. I wouldn’t expect him to be choosing Granny Wouldn’t Like It because he’s not a fan of his mum’s mum for instance. So shouldn’t those decisions be justified to the customer?
Gazza has raised the point about wine already and I think it’s important to compare it to beer as it’s being drunk for a lot of the same reasons. The biggest difference being that most people would choose a nice bottle to go with a meal and wouldn’t dream of doing so with a special bottle of beer, but why not? I’d be almost certain that if every bar, restaurant, club, two penny crap disco had a wine list that was just a list of unknown names (which is, let’s face it, what a wine list is to the vast majority of people who select stuff from them) then "house red" sales would increase significantly. But no, people get a description on a wine list and they make an informed choice based on what they like, or like the sound of.
If pubs did the same with beer, I’d be gobsmacked if it didn’t make plenty of people think, "you know what, that cheesecake stout sounds pretty tasty, I’ll try one of those..."
Hasn’t this happend in NYC? Puzzl - care to comment??? |
Originally posted by tdtm82
Originally posted by MesandSim
Ok, as for the lottery of choosing something from a nondescript pump clip, I’d like to think it was the responsibility of the publican to make sure their punters knew what they were being offered. In an ideal world, said publican should have made an informed choice on a beer he thinks people would like to drink, or better still, should be introduced to. I wouldn’t expect him to be choosing Granny Wouldn’t Like It because he’s not a fan of his mum’s mum for instance. So shouldn’t those decisions be justified to the customer?
Gazza has raised the point about wine already and I think it’s important to compare it to beer as it’s being drunk for a lot of the same reasons. The biggest difference being that most people would choose a nice bottle to go with a meal and wouldn’t dream of doing so with a special bottle of beer, but why not? I’d be almost certain that if every bar, restaurant, club, two penny crap disco had a wine list that was just a list of unknown names (which is, let’s face it, what a wine list is to the vast majority of people who select stuff from them) then "house red" sales would increase significantly. But no, people get a description on a wine list and they make an informed choice based on what they like, or like the sound of.
If pubs did the same with beer, I’d be gobsmacked if it didn’t make plenty of people think, "you know what, that cheesecake stout sounds pretty tasty, I’ll try one of those..."
Hasn’t this happend in NYC? Puzzl - care to comment???
Thomas to thread title, calling Thomas to thread title...
Happens all over the world mate, just not in the UK. |
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Originally posted by MesandSimBut no, people get a description on a wine list and they make an informed choice based on what they like, or like the sound of.
You obviously don’t go to scummy enough places! However, you are still right, because, even in places so scummy or desperate that they let me in, the wines will be accompanied by a grape variety in the name and a country. Just that can be enough to help guess where on whole gamut of tastes a wine is likely to be. The beer equivalent of that minimal information would just be the style, I guess, which is better than most beer places provide. However, that’s because most beer places, even ones with scoopers in mind, tend to generally just have middle-of-the-road pale ales because they know they can always shift something that doesn’t offend anyone.
I personally think the bottom line is for the brewers to make sure that either the name or the pump-clip is self-explanatory, or the beer is designed to not offend the kind of person who will buy a beer not knowing what it is. They’re the ones who want their beer sold, after all. |
Originally posted by chriso
Originally posted by SilkTork
99.99999999999% of beers drunk in the UK (in the world) are everyday drinking beers.
A lot of people drink stout as an everyday drinking beer. But 99.99999999999% of them drink Guinness. That may be out of choice. It may be out of lack of choice. I don’t think anyone is disputing the importance of everyday drinking beers. Just advocating a more varied diet.
You don’t think our everyday beer diet is not varied? There is a lot of focus on the amber 4.1%, and that can deflect attention from the range of beer experiences one can encounter in a typical pub or supermarket. The grottiest worst pub in the UK will have a minimum of three beers on offer - a British lager (around 4%), a standard pale lager (around 5%) and a stout (Guinness). That is the base, and it goes up from there. A typical average pub will add to that base at least one cask ale - if it has two, they will be varied - a fruity best bitter and a dry session bitter is typical, though it could be a dry blonde or a fruity blonde or a hoppy blonde, or it could be a malt accented premium bitter (such as Hen) or one with a more noticeable hop accent such as ESB. There may be a Belgian offered - most commonly a keg Leffe. A keg fruit beer such as Frulli is common. Sierra Nevada is seen more and more often in pubs. There will often be a wheat beer of some sort. I think the average pub will be offering between 8 and 10 different styles of beer. I don’t think they will be offering 8 different whiskies unless they specialise. They may offer 8 or more different wine styles as people are really into wine these days.
I think there is a blinkered attitude to what’s on offer in British pubs and British supermarkets, and people should open their eyes to what’s really on offer. 8 different styles of everyday beer available in everyday (non-beer geek) pubs is not bad.
Once you add in those pubs that like to offer a wider range, then you get the offerings of over 150 small breweries, some of whom are very interesting indeed.
Until there is some means of identifying to the general drinker what they are likely to have when they order Pakistan Scandal or Morris Men Dance, then pushing "varied" is more likely to turn people away than pull in more punters.
Giving the drinker more information is seen as important, and some brewers put tasting notes on the back of pump clips so servers can give some information when asked. Be more useful if this information was put on the front of the clips. Bottles tend to have some tasting information - and that might be why volume sales in supermarkets are growing while volume sales in pubs are declining.
I don’t think the issue is about variety - we already have that. The issue is about consistency, quality and information.
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Originally posted by SilkTork
Originally posted by chriso
Originally posted by SilkTork
99.99999999999% of beers drunk in the UK (in the world) are everyday drinking beers.
A lot of people drink stout as an everyday drinking beer. But 99.99999999999% of them drink Guinness. That may be out of choice. It may be out of lack of choice. I don’t think anyone is disputing the importance of everyday drinking beers. Just advocating a more varied diet.
You don’t think our everyday beer diet is not varied? There is a lot of focus on the amber 4.1%, and that can deflect attention from the range of beer experiences one can encounter in a typical pub or supermarket. The grottiest worst pub in the UK will have a minimum of three beers on offer - a British lager (around 4%), a standard pale lager (around 5%) and a stout (Guinness). That is the base, and it goes up from there. A typical average pub will add to that base at least one cask ale - if it has two, they will be varied - a fruity best bitter and a dry session bitter is typical, though it could be a dry blonde or a fruity blonde or a hoppy blonde, or it could be a malt accented premium bitter (such as Hen) or one with a more noticeable hop accent such as ESB. There may be a Belgian offered - most commonly a keg Leffe. A keg fruit beer such as Frulli is common. Sierra Nevada is seen more and more often in pubs. There will often be a wheat beer of some sort. I think the average pub will be offering between 8 and 10 different styles of beer. I don’t think they will be offering 8 different whiskies unless they specialise. They may offer 8 or more different wine styles as people are really into wine these days.
I think there is a blinkered attitude to what’s on offer in British pubs and British supermarkets, and people should open their eyes to what’s really on offer. 8 different styles of everyday beer available in everyday (non-beer geek) pubs is not bad.
Once you add in those pubs that like to offer a wider range, then you get the offerings of over 150 small breweries, some of whom are very interesting indeed.
Until there is some means of identifying to the general drinker what they are likely to have when they order Pakistan Scandal or Morris Men Dance, then pushing "varied" is more likely to turn people away than pull in more punters.
Giving the drinker more information is seen as important, and some brewers put tasting notes on the back of pump clips so servers can give some information when asked. Be more useful if this information was put on the front of the clips. Bottles tend to have some tasting information - and that might be why volume sales in supermarkets are growing while volume sales in pubs are declining.
I don’t think the issue is about variety - we already have that. The issue is about consistency, quality and information.
we’re trying this way - it’s going well.
I hope that link works, it’s a facebook link.
But, 1, for the sanity of the bar staff, and 2, for my own peace, I wanted to put as much information on the pump clip as possible. Probably to the detriment of the aesthetic. the talents of a mediocre graphic designer passed me by. as much, I have always hated the stupid names, lack of information and traditional shield stylings of british pumpclips - and this was a way of bypassing. |
Originally posted by Gazza
Originally posted by SilkTork
Would introducing people to forms of beer they may not like encourage beer to become central again?
Why not? it might, a lot of people just don’t know there is an alternative. Your argument is like saying everyone should eat McScum because they might not like Lamb Madras - everyone should get the opportunity to try craft beer and, out of everyone who does, if we get just 1% positive response that’s a lot of people setting out on the beer discovery journey.
It doesn’t help to give people an experience they don’t like. You are approaching this from a fan’s perspective - you like it so you think everyone else should as well.
Rather than repelling 99% of people by giving them something they found unpleasant, it might make more sense to build on what people like. If I went in to McDonalds for a Filet-O-Fish and was given a Lamb Madras I wouldn’t eat it, and I wouldn’t go in that McDonalds again. I don’t eat meat, and I have an allergic reaction to strong spice (I pass out!). But if I read a review that said - "If you like McDonalds Filet-O-Fish, you might like Gazza’s Fish Sandwich", and Gazza’s Fish Sandwich was a step on from Filet-O-Fish, then I would be willing to continue the journey of discovery.
Information is the key rather than random experiences. And building on what people already know and like. |
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Originally posted by FatPhil
Originally posted by wheresthepath
Crouch Vale, Oakham, Oakleaf, Bowman and co, here’s to you...
And Adnams. I really like Adnams. I know I’m the only one... 
Anth
How can you go from talking so much sense to this nonsense?!?!? Since about 2000, the only good time to have an Adnams is after 6 pints of vindaloo. Which is a real shame, as they used to produce several pretty OK beers.
I like Adnams. Variable yes, but a beer like Broadside is enjoyable. |
Originally posted by MesandSim
I’d be almost certain that if every bar, restaurant, club, two penny crap disco had a wine list that was just a list of unknown names (which is, let’s face it, what a wine list is to the vast majority of people who select stuff from them) then "house red" sales would increase significantly. But no, people get a description on a wine list and they make an informed choice based on what they like, or like the sound of.
I’m an everyday wine drinker - and I tend to go for the house red/white in most restaurants where I am choosing a wine for my meal. It’s usually pretty good. From experience in most restaurants I have found that you end up paying three times the usual amount for a particular style or grape, and end up with an example at the lower quality end. Restaurants where this is the exception tend to be very expensive, and so used only for very special occasions where you are prepared to pay top whack for a special wine.
Next time you’re in an Italian restaurant, go for the house red - it’ll be a decent young Italian red that will accompany the food very well. |
Originally posted by Phil
we’re trying this way - it’s going well.
I hope that link works, it’s a facebook link.
But, 1, for the sanity of the bar staff, and 2, for my own peace, I wanted to put as much information on the pump clip as possible. Probably to the detriment of the aesthetic. the talents of a mediocre graphic designer passed me by. as much, I have always hated the stupid names, lack of information and traditional shield stylings of british pumpclips - and this was a way of bypassing.
I like that. That’s useful information and way better than average. Though be aware that the information is more useful to those that already know about brewing ingredients - though you do give a colour clue and flavour clue - "warm red hue" and "massive spicy edge".
I suppose a difficulty is always going to be that flavour descriptions are likely to be subjective. |
