UK beer scene

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Message Doppelganger beers 1389 º places 20 º 13:06 Thu 9/2/2010 Other factors favoring the UK beer scene: The UK has a unified and much simpler set of laws governing breweries. The US has a state by state patchwork of laws, some favorable, some not. Here in Arkansas, you can neither self-distribute nor have on-premise sales, both of which make starting a small brewery very challenging. (As evidenced by the fact we have a single packaging brewery and three brewpubs in this state of 3 million.) The UK has a tradition of rotating casks and of local beer festivals, the combination of which mean that local drinkers will probably have at least a couple of opportunities to be exposed to a new brewer’s offerings, so if your brewery is good you can build a market for yourself with little/no advertising budget. In the US, outside of the places where the beer revival is in full swing, most bars and restaurants choose a tap line up at opening and make adjustments a couple of times a year at most, so getting spots on the tap line as a new brewery without advertising money is extremely difficult. And there is no such thing as a local beer festival. (Contemplating the laws that would have to be navigated in Arkansas to attempt something like what Fin does in Merton, I shudder.) UK brewers have a chance to be local in ways that only a small handful of American brewers can. The UK has small often independent malting houses scattered all over, with named, specific barley varieties available. A UK brewer can choose Optic, Pearl, Halcyon, Golden Promise, Maris Otter in a couple of colors, most definitely know where it was malted and probably find out who grew it. American brewers wanting American malt can generally get 2-row pale malt or pilsner malt. With our very centralized production, barley is grown in one state, malted in another, then shipped very far and wide. All but one or two small malting houses are owned by massive agricultural conglomerates. Any real sense of ingredient terrior is next to impossible. A few US brewers grow their own or have access to locally grown hops, but the heaviest ingredient component will have always travelled 100s or 1000s of miles to get to them. And since the food miles of the malt are already a long mysterious web, and American malt is pretty neutral by intent and the necessities of the industrial process, brewers wanting to do modest strength beers with character often end up importing malt anyway. I still brew almost exclusively with British Optic and Maris Otter malt, and for the low-gravity brews that I want to drink every day it is just the best stuff. There is a great deal of room for improvement in certain areas. The vast number of boring bitters is annoying, though the pale malt/carmel malt/EKGs formula, when it is done well with an expressive yeast strain, can be glorious. There is a great deal of variability in cask quality, and I don’t miss the summer stretches where every other pint I ordered was oxidized. (That fact, more than any other, is what I suspect moves drinkers from real ales to keg lagers. How much money do you have to waste on horrible oxidized ale before the safe world of keg lagers starts to sound appealing?) And there is the generally appalling state of UK bottled beer, especially the modest strength stuff, somewhat compensated for by easy access at reasonable prices to the rest of the world’s best beer. (You would not believe how many American beers that I love that I can’t get here, but that the UK can.) To sum up: a few wrinkles not withstanding, I’d rather be drinking beer in the UK than anywhere else I can think of.
Message wheresthepath beers 3441 º places 278 º 13:17 Thu 9/2/2010 Originally posted by SilkTork The grottiest worst pub in the UK will have a minimum of three beers on offer - a British lager (around 4%), a standard pale lager (around 5%) and a stout (Guinness). You forgot the John Smiths keg. Although to be fair, I try to forget about this too...! Anth
Message wheresthepath beers 3441 º places 278 º 13:33 Thu 9/2/2010 Originally posted by Doppelganger The UK has a tradition of rotating casks. No, no, no! This makes the beer go cloudy. You should leave a cask to stand for at least three days before... oh, sorry, I see what you mean... Nice point about the benefits of UK law - we sometimes forget how lucky we are to live in a country with liberal laws that accept that beer is part of the UK’s traditions (and we’ve truly benefitted from the reduced tax on microbreweries). Also, well said about the UK’s malts. There’s a lot written about how the US has the best hops, but little is mentioned about the UK’s great malt. I’ve always tended to think of US beers being hop-dominated, UK beers being malt dominated and Belgian beers being dominated by great yeasts. We don’t spend enough time praising what we already have, and are too focused on comparing what we have negatively against the completely different beer styles that other countries have - hurrah for our great malty bitters & milds, they’re just as good as hoppy IPAs in their own way. Hmmm... now here’s a thought. Our malt is bulky and difficult to transport to the USA. US hops and Belgian yeast are much lighter and less bulky. The UK is therefore in a unique position to benefit from the best of all three cultures. Watch out America... On a completely different tangent, UK beers do tend to suffer a bit under the Bayensian averaging thingy and 10 beer minimum used on this website. So many of our beers are in effect "limited edition" small batches (ie our brewers’ monthly special cask beers etc) that they tend to only be rated by a handful of Ratebeerians - therefore UK beers are always going to struggle to top the beer ratings charts. On the plus side, I suppose this stops loads of people trying to "tick" them, and keep the prices down for us Brits... Cheers, sorry for the meandering post... Anth

Message tdtm82 beers 1704 º places 138 º 15:00 Thu 9/2/2010 Originally posted by Doppelganger Doppelganger Awesome post mate! I’ve only been on RB becuase of Joris on another forum and I’ve had a learning curve to say the least! However you are spot on. We have the most exclusive collection of trainers in the UK as well. That’s Mes.
Message harrisoni P beers 25356 º places 68 º 15:00 Thu 9/2/2010 Originally posted by Doppelganger To sum up: a few wrinkles not withstanding, I’d rather be drinking beer in the UK than anywhere else I can think of. Those two posts have got to be the most heartfelt, intelligent and interesting additions to Ratebeer that I have read. When we first met you Casey down in Dover on the White Cliffs BF, I could tell you knew your stuff, but it was only when I tasted your homebrew that I really began to realise that your beer knowledge was that special. Thanks for sharing your experience in the States, we sometimes get a very specific concentrated view here in the UK and don’t get a full 50 odd state picture. We miss you Casey and Traci and your beers and your presence down the pub. Sometimes I don’t think we know how lucky we are in the UK and it’s only when you speak to people like Casey and HogTownHarry that you realise how lucky we are. I’ve had a brilliant time this evening in a pub no bigger than my front room with 8 cask beers on including a Citra hopped English strong golden ale and a UK/Belgian Double IPA. And all perfectly conditioned at the Butchers Arms. I remain stunned this evening and feel very very lucky,
Message tdtm82 beers 1704 º places 138 º 15:04 Thu 9/2/2010 Originally posted by wheresthepath You probably know this already, but with regard to the UK IPA sub-thread, anyone who wants to know more would be well advised to read Pete Brown’s book Hops and Glory, available from Amazon here (other online retailers are available...): http://www.amazon.co.uk/Hops-Glory-search-British-Empire/dp/0330511866/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1283457653&sr=1-1 In it he tries to recreate a traditional British IPA by using an old recipe, & then by sailing it around the world to India - it’s quite informative, and great fun! You could also try another of his books, "Man Walks Into A Pub" for a history of the UK beer and pub scene, along with his view on CAMRA - on Amazon here: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Man-Walks-Into-Pub-Sociable/dp/0330412205/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1283457653&sr=1-2 Cheers Anth The book does contain the original IPA recipee so I saw to it that Urbain got a copy via a mutual fan boy in Belgium.
Message tdtm82 beers 1704 º places 138 º 15:07 Thu 9/2/2010 Originally posted by harrisoni Originally posted by Doppelganger To sum up: a few wrinkles not withstanding, I’d rather be drinking beer in the UK than anywhere else I can think of. Those two posts have got to be the most heartfelt, intelligent and interesting additions to Ratebeer that I have read. When we first met you Casey down in Dover on the White Cliffs BF, I could tell you knew your stuff, but it was only when I tasted your homebrew that I really began to realise that your beer knowledge was that special. Thanks for sharing your experience in the States, we sometimes get a very specific concentrated view here in the UK and don’t get a full 50 odd state picture. We miss you Casey and Traci and your beers and your presence down the pub. Sometimes I don’t think we know how lucky we are in the UK and it’s only when you speak to people like Casey and HogTownHarry that you realise how lucky we are. I’ve had a brilliant time this evening in a pub no bigger than my front room with 8 cask beers on including a Citra hopped English strong golden ale and a UK/Belgian Double IPA. And all perfectly conditioned at the Butchers Arms. I remain stunned this evening and feel very very lucky, Pleased you had a top night out mate. Looking forward to seeing you and everyone on Marble night.

Message MesandSim beers 7116 º places 35 º 15:27 Thu 9/2/2010 Originally posted by Doppelganger LOTS of words of brilliance Casey, come back mate! In addition to what Ian has just said, I’ll go as far to say that those two posts are candidates for the best I’ve ever read on this forum. Part educational, part a call to arms, part just sheer love. Utterly excellent mate. I miss rating your brews, your expert conversation and just all round top bloke status. Some of what you say is as sad as it is brilliant. Yes there is some stunning beer brewed in the UK and yes there is almost certainly a worthy place for something drinkable and full of character yet not assertive or challenging, which we clearly beat the world at hands down. I just know there is so much more under the surface that remains untapped, pun intended. The passion, knowledge and warmth on this most excellent of threads for what our country is capable of makes my heart swell. And throughout all the complaints, my own included, I really feel that in the past ten years, more so in the past five, things are on the up and right now the sky is the limit. I look at things like the Rocking Horse and what Urbain was able to do with Nottingham yeast and Fuggles and other English stuff that I forget now and wonder why we can’t be making something of equal genius. But then I drink something like Dark Star Tripel and realise we are oh so close. I just wish the brewers over here would go at it with the gusto we are currently seeing in Italy for instance. But that just wouldn’t be cricket would it? Anyway, this is a long winded reply, my main point... fucking superb posts mate. I’ll toast you with my next Hophead.
Message cgarvieuk P beers 37619 º places 457 º 22:19 Thu 9/2/2010 Originally posted by Doppelganger The UK has small often independent malting houses scattered all over, with named, specific barley varieties available. A UK brewer can choose Optic, Pearl, Halcyon, Golden Promise, Maris Otter in a couple of colors, most definitely know where it was malted and probably find out who grew it. American brewers wanting American malt can generally get 2-row pale malt or pilsner malt. With our very centralized production, barley is grown in one state, malted in another, then shipped very far and wide. All but one or two small malting houses are owned by massive agricultural conglomerates. Any real sense of ingredient terrior is next to impossible. A few US brewers grow their own or have access to locally grown hops, but the heaviest ingredient component will have always travelled 100s or 1000s of miles to get to them. [/quote man real interesting post, really drawing on you unique experience. what really got me thoughwas the fact that i like very few American pale ales, i assumed hops but some one said it was the malt. I now know why Its all the same malt. I do taste it in quite a few American beers, but its the standard pale ale that its most present. Does any one know a UK beer that uses the 2row malt? so that i can confirm that this is just what im not fond of.
Message Fin P beers 17268 º places 1653 º 00:25 Fri 9/3/2010 I can only echo the thoughts of others. This thread has made wonderful reading and to top it off Casey weighs in with two glorious posts like that which makes you think just how damn lucky we are. The UK beer scene is getting better all the time, I think our biggest problem is that the good ol’ British reserve means that we rarely champion things that are going well in this country and too often look elsewhere. We seem great at convincing ourselves that the grass is greener on the other side, I don’t know what it is maybe self doubt? But whatever it is we should look at what we do well and strive for continuos improvement. We (me & Loz) spent the night in Oxford last night and had a wonderful evening, ok there were no beers that totally blew me away, but I had a number of very good beers and nothing that was poor, all consumed in some wonderful establishments, The Chequers, The Jam Factory, Far From The Madding Crowd, The Turf Tavern, The Royal Blenheim, I even enjoyed and had a couple of very decent beers in the two JDW’s it was a truly lovely night and I thought about Casey and how much he and Traci immersed themselves into the UK pub and beer culture, and it makes you think that you take things for granted until someone else comes along and tells you just how good you’ve got it. Fin