Originally posted by mkgrenwel
Originally posted by TheBeerSommelier
Originally posted by after4ever
Originally posted by mkgrenwel
Originally posted by pinkie
Also I like to remember that waiting tables is a hard job, physically and emotionally demanding. In the case of the delivery driver they work under the same conditions as the post man - rain, snow, sleet and dark of night. It’s only money. What’s a couple of bucks?
However don’t try to snow me. Pizza guy came to the door and said he had no change. I said "I’m not giving you $30 for this pizza." He went and got the change.
This is not at all about how much these employees should or should not make. Again, the premise is that they would make the same money, just from an hourly wage rather than tips.
And we would pay the same money, just in product pricing rather than tips. Don’t kid yourself.
This. Consumers will bear the monetary burden either way.
Restaurant owners will necessarily cry poverty (no matter who they are, or how successful they are), if they thought for one second they’d need to keep their prices the same, with no tips allowed.
So they wouldn’t.
Again, you people need to read my previous posts. I’m not looking to save a buck. I am suggesting that product prices are raised to a place that is equivalent to current price plus an average tip, and that that additional cost gets directly passed on to the server in increased hourly wages. On an average, typical transaction the patron pays out the same amount, the owner takes in the same profit, and the server takes home the same amount.
I am completely fine with employees making the money they make, and I am completely fine with patrons including myself paying that cost for service. I am not OK with the dynamics of how that money changes hands, and how unevenly and inconsistently those funds are often distributed.
FWIW I lived on tips for two years as a bartender. This isn’t about disdain for service industry employees. I think that tipping is actually a disservice to the work they do. An alternative system would actually be to their benefit, as the article explains.
So you agree that, again, the cost would simply transfer to product price then. Cool.
Would suck for the *good* servers, though, who work harder and, as it stands now, cash out better due to tips. |
Originally posted by craftycarl21
Originally posted by whaleman
Originally posted by craftycarl21
I work in the industry full time. While I would love for tipping to not be required, you also have to realize that for restaurants to pay their employees what they make hourly in tips as just a standard wage, your entree will have to be $40 instead of $24 (very rough estimate). The money doesn’t just magically appear to make an establishment be able to afford an 800% increase in wages.
If an average tip is 20% (for instance) and tipping was eliminated, wouldn’t a 20% increase in the cost of all menu items cover the increase in wages? Everybody would spend the same amount. Everybody would earn the same amount. No tipping involved.
No, because some servers only make $2-$3 an hour in wage. Let’s say with tips factored in they make $25/hour, then in order for the establishment to play an hourly wage that comes close to that they’re increasing it by nearly 1000%. There is going to require a serious increase in profit on goods in order to accommodate that increase.
If that extra 22-23 dollars an hour goes in the register with the rest of the revenue, it will balance out. This is how places in the rest of the world do it and they have no issues. I’m not sure where you are getting your numbers from, but you are way off here.
In a no-tipping system, the standard tip margin (say 20%, though I’m not sure who decided somewhat recently that that was "standard") is added on either separately or included by item on the bill, and the difference (same total amount as tips would be) is used to pay the employees roughly the same amount as if the tips went directly to them. You eliminate the tax loophole from cash tips, but I don’t think anyone has any sympathy for that to begin with.
It’s just a more sound, civilized, and honest way of doing business. When I open a brewpub, I plan on doing this. |
|
|
|
|
15% is considered standard, I think most people just use 20% because 20% is easier to do mathematically. 20% is my standard, but I wouldn’t expect people to tip 20% except for a great waitress. |
How is 20% easier than 15%? $1.50 per $10 compared to $2, $.75 compared to $1 per $5, etc. It’s easy to break down in your head on the fly, and I’m not a huge % person.
I think the last 5 times I’ve had gratuity included it was 20% and I think they deserved more than that. I hope I’m not being ripped off. |
Because it’s a lot easier to do math by the 10s. Quick do the tip on $25 for 15% and 20%. I can’t imagine that it’s easier for anyone to come up with $3.75 over $2.50 or $5. It’s a shit ton easier to either move a decimal or double the amount and move a decimal than to do actual math. |
Originally posted by SamGamgee
Originally posted by craftycarl21
Originally posted by whaleman
Originally posted by craftycarl21
I work in the industry full time. While I would love for tipping to not be required, you also have to realize that for restaurants to pay their employees what they make hourly in tips as just a standard wage, your entree will have to be $40 instead of $24 (very rough estimate). The money doesn’t just magically appear to make an establishment be able to afford an 800% increase in wages.
If an average tip is 20% (for instance) and tipping was eliminated, wouldn’t a 20% increase in the cost of all menu items cover the increase in wages? Everybody would spend the same amount. Everybody would earn the same amount. No tipping involved.
No, because some servers only make $2-$3 an hour in wage. Let’s say with tips factored in they make $25/hour, then in order for the establishment to play an hourly wage that comes close to that they’re increasing it by nearly 1000%. There is going to require a serious increase in profit on goods in order to accommodate that increase.
If that extra 22-23 dollars an hour goes in the register with the rest of the revenue, it will balance out. This is how places in the rest of the world do it and they have no issues. I’m not sure where you are getting your numbers from, but you are way off here.
In a no-tipping system, the standard tip margin (say 20%, though I’m not sure who decided somewhat recently that that was "standard") is added on either separately or included by item on the bill, and the difference (same total amount as tips would be) is used to pay the employees roughly the same amount as if the tips went directly to them. You eliminate the tax loophole from cash tips, but I don’t think anyone has any sympathy for that to begin with.
It’s just a more sound, civilized, and honest way of doing business. When I open a brewpub, I plan on doing this.
Ok I see what you’re getting at, I misinterpreted the previous post. However, my numbers are not at all off, I’m not quite sure why you think they are. I thought that whaleman was advocating a 20% increase that would be distributed across the entirety of profits and costs just as they are otherwise, in that the server wouldn’t get that entire extra 20%. If you’re essentially saying that you add an obligatory 20% that the server sees all of in lieu of tips, then I agree entirely. |
|
|
Originally posted by after4ever
Originally posted by mkgrenwel
Originally posted by TheBeerSommelier
Originally posted by after4ever
Originally posted by mkgrenwel
Originally posted by pinkie
Also I like to remember that waiting tables is a hard job, physically and emotionally demanding. In the case of the delivery driver they work under the same conditions as the post man - rain, snow, sleet and dark of night. It’s only money. What’s a couple of bucks?
However don’t try to snow me. Pizza guy came to the door and said he had no change. I said "I’m not giving you $30 for this pizza." He went and got the change.
This is not at all about how much these employees should or should not make. Again, the premise is that they would make the same money, just from an hourly wage rather than tips.
And we would pay the same money, just in product pricing rather than tips. Don’t kid yourself.
This. Consumers will bear the monetary burden either way.
Restaurant owners will necessarily cry poverty (no matter who they are, or how successful they are), if they thought for one second they’d need to keep their prices the same, with no tips allowed.
So they wouldn’t.
Again, you people need to read my previous posts. I’m not looking to save a buck. I am suggesting that product prices are raised to a place that is equivalent to current price plus an average tip, and that that additional cost gets directly passed on to the server in increased hourly wages. On an average, typical transaction the patron pays out the same amount, the owner takes in the same profit, and the server takes home the same amount.
I am completely fine with employees making the money they make, and I am completely fine with patrons including myself paying that cost for service. I am not OK with the dynamics of how that money changes hands, and how unevenly and inconsistently those funds are often distributed.
FWIW I lived on tips for two years as a bartender. This isn’t about disdain for service industry employees. I think that tipping is actually a disservice to the work they do. An alternative system would actually be to their benefit, as the article explains.
So you agree that, again, the cost would simply transfer to product price then. Cool.
Would suck for the *good* servers, though, who work harder and, as it stands now, cash out better due to tips.
They can get raises and other benefits that come with being an exceptional employee. You know, like a real job. |
Wait, raises are based off of being an exceptional employee? Where does this happen? |
Originally posted by keanex
Wait, raises are based off of being an exceptional employee? Where does this happen?
Japan. |
