How do you say ’Pliny’?

Reads 42947 • Replies 57 • Started Wednesday, July 29, 2009 9:06:14 PM CT

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Message bhensonb P beers 21979 º places 678 º 11:01 Thu 7/30/2009 The truly important revelation in this thread is that DaSilky1 has candidly disclosed he has no taste or appreciation for great beer. A cue to disrespect his ratings, perhaps. Or his posts. Or both. Or him. Or his pet. Or his underwear, though that rests upon an assumption I have no wish to personally investigate.
Message Cletus beers 6349 º places 233 º 11:30 Thu 7/30/2009 Originally posted by joet Originally posted by Cletus Originally posted by TampaBrew Vinnie says "PLY-KNEE" ... good enough for me. Then it ain’t a tribute to Gaius Plinius Secundus (Pliny the Elder) or Gaius Plinius Caecilius Secundus (Pliny the Younger) since that is an incorrect pronunciation of their names. Right, we know exactly how people in that time and in that particular region spoke the language because some dude with an iPhone caught them all at roll call in the Senate. I know English. And Aussies say, "Ploy-nuh". Yes, we actually do know for a fact how they said their names. Latin is the parent language of several languages spoken today and is still a spoken language in the Catholic Church. There are linguists who study this sort of thing and Latin, like most of the Romance languages is a phonetic language, so we actually do know how the language was spoken.
Message joet P admin beers 2900 º places 125 º 11:58 Thu 7/30/2009 Originally posted by Cletus Originally posted by joet Originally posted by Cletus Originally posted by TampaBrew Vinnie says "PLY-KNEE" ... good enough for me. Then it ain’t a tribute to Gaius Plinius Secundus (Pliny the Elder) or Gaius Plinius Caecilius Secundus (Pliny the Younger) since that is an incorrect pronunciation of their names. Right, we know exactly how people in that time and in that particular region spoke the language because some dude with an iPhone caught them all at roll call in the Senate. I know English. And Aussies say, "Ploy-nuh". Yes, we actually do know for a fact how they said their names. Latin is the parent language of several languages spoken today and is still a spoken language in the Catholic Church. There are linguists who study this sort of thing and Latin, like most of the Romance languages is a phonetic language, so we actually do know how the language was spoken. Total, laughable and complete BS. There have been strong shifts in the pronunciation of American English in just the last hundred years. There have been radical changes in the evolution of English from Old German. Are you even attempting to claim that we can infer the pronunciation of Latin in a certain region at a certain point in time by making assumptions from how Romantic languages are pronounced now? YOU may know how Latin was pronounced in the time and place of Pligh-knee, but the rest of us absolutely do not share your superhuman ability to travel through time-space.

Message cquiroga beers 371 º places 11 º 12:02 Thu 7/30/2009 Just like the brewer-- "Vine-eee" Cilurzo.
Message Cletus beers 6349 º places 233 º 12:07 Thu 7/30/2009 Originally posted by joet Originally posted by Cletus Originally posted by joet Originally posted by Cletus Originally posted by TampaBrew Vinnie says "PLY-KNEE" ... good enough for me. Then it ain’t a tribute to Gaius Plinius Secundus (Pliny the Elder) or Gaius Plinius Caecilius Secundus (Pliny the Younger) since that is an incorrect pronunciation of their names. Right, we know exactly how people in that time and in that particular region spoke the language because some dude with an iPhone caught them all at roll call in the Senate. I know English. And Aussies say, "Ploy-nuh". Yes, we actually do know for a fact how they said their names. Latin is the parent language of several languages spoken today and is still a spoken language in the Catholic Church. There are linguists who study this sort of thing and Latin, like most of the Romance languages is a phonetic language, so we actually do know how the language was spoken. Total, laughable and complete BS. There have been strong shifts in the pronunciation of American English in just the last hundred years. There have been radical changes in the evolution of English from Old German. Are you even attempting to claim that we can infer the pronunciation of Latin in a certain region at a certain point in time by making assumptions from how Romantic languages are pronounced now? YOU may know how Latin was pronounced in the time and place of Pligh-knee, but the rest of us absolutely do not share your superhuman ability to travel through time-space. Tell you what, I’ll Google how to grow grapes and give you some pointers later because I think you do a shitty job of it because I know more than you do about it after my quick browse of Google and a few TV shows about grape growing. I actually study and teach this for a living and know what I’m talking about, unlike you in this instance, but please, let me know if you want me to tear apart your assinine comparison.
Message DietPepsican P beers 1592 º places 63 º 12:11 Thu 7/30/2009 it drinks pretty good no matter what it’s called.
Message beerchugger beers 717 º places 23 º 12:12 Thu 7/30/2009 Originally posted by joet Originally posted by Cletus Originally posted by joet Originally posted by Cletus Originally posted by TampaBrew Vinnie says "PLY-KNEE" ... good enough for me. Then it ain’t a tribute to Gaius Plinius Secundus (Pliny the Elder) or Gaius Plinius Caecilius Secundus (Pliny the Younger) since that is an incorrect pronunciation of their names. Right, we know exactly how people in that time and in that particular region spoke the language because some dude with an iPhone caught them all at roll call in the Senate. I know English. And Aussies say, "Ploy-nuh". Yes, we actually do know for a fact how they said their names. Latin is the parent language of several languages spoken today and is still a spoken language in the Catholic Church. There are linguists who study this sort of thing and Latin, like most of the Romance languages is a phonetic language, so we actually do know how the language was spoken. Total, laughable and complete BS. There have been strong shifts in the pronunciation of American English in just the last hundred years. There have been radical changes in the evolution of English from Old German. Are you even attempting to claim that we can infer the pronunciation of Latin in a certain region at a certain point in time by making assumptions from how Romantic languages are pronounced now? YOU may know how Latin was pronounced in the time and place of Pligh-knee, but the rest of us absolutely do not share your superhuman ability to travel through time-space. Right, because how I speak English today is a definite indicator as to how they pronounced Latin/Greek 2,000 years ago. If a language (like latin) has been practiced and handed down generation to generation, then how another language changes (english or japanese) has no effect on the latin at all. Your very argument works against you. How do you know for sure, since you weren’t around 2,000 years ago, that we can not know how the language sounded? The only way to know anything is to have a standard, which in this case, would be how the original sounded, to judge against. Since, according to you, we can not have that standard, then we have no way of knowing that we can not know those same sounds.

Message joet P admin beers 2900 º places 125 º 12:20 Thu 7/30/2009 Originally posted by Cletus Originally posted by joet Originally posted by Cletus Originally posted by joet Originally posted by Cletus Originally posted by TampaBrew Vinnie says "PLY-KNEE" ... good enough for me. Then it ain’t a tribute to Gaius Plinius Secundus (Pliny the Elder) or Gaius Plinius Caecilius Secundus (Pliny the Younger) since that is an incorrect pronunciation of their names. Right, we know exactly how people in that time and in that particular region spoke the language because some dude with an iPhone caught them all at roll call in the Senate. I know English. And Aussies say, "Ploy-nuh". Yes, we actually do know for a fact how they said their names. Latin is the parent language of several languages spoken today and is still a spoken language in the Catholic Church. There are linguists who study this sort of thing and Latin, like most of the Romance languages is a phonetic language, so we actually do know how the language was spoken. Total, laughable and complete BS. There have been strong shifts in the pronunciation of American English in just the last hundred years. There have been radical changes in the evolution of English from Old German. Are you even attempting to claim that we can infer the pronunciation of Latin in a certain region at a certain point in time by making assumptions from how Romantic languages are pronounced now? YOU may know how Latin was pronounced in the time and place of Pligh-knee, but the rest of us absolutely do not share your superhuman ability to travel through time-space. Tell you what, I’ll Google how to grow grapes and give you some pointers later because I think you do a shitty job of it because I know more than you do about it after my quick browse of Google and a few TV shows about grape growing. I actually study and teach this for a living and know what I’m talking about, unlike you in this instance, but please, let me know if you want me to tear apart your assinine comparison. I would in any other case with an expert concede but for some reason, I’m all ears! Can we at least get your credentials straight... Are you saying you’re a university researcher in linguistics specializing in the phonetics of ancient languages?!
Message joet P admin beers 2900 º places 125 º 12:29 Thu 7/30/2009 Originally posted by beerchugger Originally posted by joet Originally posted by Cletus Originally posted by joet Originally posted by Cletus Originally posted by TampaBrew Vinnie says "PLY-KNEE" ... good enough for me. Then it ain’t a tribute to Gaius Plinius Secundus (Pliny the Elder) or Gaius Plinius Caecilius Secundus (Pliny the Younger) since that is an incorrect pronunciation of their names. Right, we know exactly how people in that time and in that particular region spoke the language because some dude with an iPhone caught them all at roll call in the Senate. I know English. And Aussies say, "Ploy-nuh". Yes, we actually do know for a fact how they said their names. Latin is the parent language of several languages spoken today and is still a spoken language in the Catholic Church. There are linguists who study this sort of thing and Latin, like most of the Romance languages is a phonetic language, so we actually do know how the language was spoken. Total, laughable and complete BS. There have been strong shifts in the pronunciation of American English in just the last hundred years. There have been radical changes in the evolution of English from Old German. Are you even attempting to claim that we can infer the pronunciation of Latin in a certain region at a certain point in time by making assumptions from how Romantic languages are pronounced now? YOU may know how Latin was pronounced in the time and place of Pligh-knee, but the rest of us absolutely do not share your superhuman ability to travel through time-space. Right, because how I speak English today is a definite indicator as to how they pronounced Latin/Greek 2,000 years ago. If a language (like latin) has been practiced and handed down generation to generation, then how another language changes (english or japanese) has no effect on the latin at all. Your very argument works against you. How do you know for sure, since you weren’t around 2,000 years ago, that we can not know how the language sounded? The only way to know anything is to have a standard, which in this case, would be how the original sounded, to judge against. Since, according to you, we can not have that standard, then we have no way of knowing that we can not know those same sounds. A living language evolves through time across distances. Pronunciation didn’t solidify and stop evolving the moment Pliny’s name was first pronounced. Even in our schools where phonetics are taught, you still have Canadians saying "aboot" for about, some Englishmen saying "roar" for "raw", silent Rs in many places, etc. I know nothing about linguistics, I freely admit. But I have some ability as a smart person to know when a knowledgeable person is stepping beyond what he or she can possibly know. If you want to step into credibility, I’m all ears.
Message Cletus beers 6349 º places 233 º 12:29 Thu 7/30/2009 Originally posted by joet I would in any other case with an expert concede but for some reason, I’m all ears! Can we at least get your credentials straight... Are you saying you’re a university researcher in linguistics specializing in the phonetics of ancient languages?! I teach a course on Ancient Rome at a local college but clearly with your grape growing expertise and because some brewer says a word wrong, you must be right and know more than I do on the subject.