Originally posted by joet
no, i mean acidulated malt is always 2-row sprayed with lactic acid
It’s pilsner malt that is either steeped in a lactic acid solution, or sprayed with it. Weyermann does one and Best Malz does the other but I can’t remember which is which, though the result is the same.
It’s basically an easy run-around of the reinheitsgebot to add acid to your mash, which is only allowable from natural lacto souring, so it’s either this or make a sour starter, which a lot of German breweries do. You can’t just use acid out of a drum like brewers do here.
On another note, phosphoric acid has a more neutral flavor than lactic acid and is probably preferable if you may need to use higher amounts. In any case, I don’t think anyone is adding enough to significantly hurt flavor if your mash is in the proper range. 5.4-ish solutions just don’t taste sour. Any beer above 4 doesn’t even have any sour flavor to it. You really have to get under 3.8 to start noticing sourness and full on sour beers are more in the low 3 range.
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Originally posted by SamGamgee
Originally posted by joet
no, i mean acidulated malt is always 2-row sprayed with lactic acid
It’s pilsner malt that is either steeped in a lactic acid solution, or sprayed with it. Weyermann does one and Best Malz does the other but I can’t remember which is which, though the result is the same.
It’s basically an easy run-around of the reinheitsgebot to add acid to your mash, which is only allowable from natural lacto souring, so it’s either this or make a sour starter, which a lot of German breweries do. You can’t just use acid out of a drum like brewers do here.
On another note, phosphoric acid has a more neutral flavor than lactic acid and is probably preferable if you may need to use higher amounts. In any case, I don’t think anyone is adding enough to significantly hurt flavor if your mash is in the proper range. 5.4-ish solutions just don’t taste sour. Any beer above 4 doesn’t even have any sour flavor to it. You really have to get under 3.8 to start noticing sourness and full on sour beers are more in the low 3 range.
That’s interesting. Adjust my pH with Star San? It’s actually pretty easy to make a sour starter. the malting process encourages Lactobacillus growth so your malt is naturally coated with it. A bit of crushed malt, some warm (115 or so) water and you’re off to the races. I did buy a little bottle of lactic acid some time ago. I’m assuming that the dosage would be so tiny that it would not contribute to flavor or perceived sourness. |
Originally posted by joet
no, i mean acidulated malt is always 2-row sprayed with lactic acid
Probably that or Pilsner, but yes.
Hence my idea to get a bottle of lactic acid and just cut to the chase. |
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Originally posted by SamGamgee
Originally posted by joet
no, i mean acidulated malt is always 2-row sprayed with lactic acid
It’s pilsner malt that is either steeped in a lactic acid solution, or sprayed with it. Weyermann does one and Best Malz does the other but I can’t remember which is which, though the result is the same.
It’s basically an easy run-around of the reinheitsgebot to add acid to your mash, which is only allowable from natural lacto souring, so it’s either this or make a sour starter, which a lot of German breweries do. ...
How is steeping malt in lactic acid Reinheitsgebot-OK? You can treat your ingredients with whatever, but you can’t add whatever to the mash or brew? |
Originally posted by SamGamgee
Originally posted by joet
no, i mean acidulated malt is always 2-row sprayed with lactic acid
It’s pilsner malt that is either steeped in a lactic acid solution, or sprayed with it. Weyermann does one and Best Malz does the other but I can’t remember which is which, though the result is the same.
It’s basically an easy run-around of the reinheitsgebot to add acid to your mash, which is only allowable from natural lacto souring, so it’s either this or make a sour starter, which a lot of German breweries do. You can’t just use acid out of a drum like brewers do here.
On another note, phosphoric acid has a more neutral flavor than lactic acid and is probably preferable if you may need to use higher amounts. In any case, I don’t think anyone is adding enough to significantly hurt flavor if your mash is in the proper range. 5.4-ish solutions just don’t taste sour. Any beer above 4 doesn’t even have any sour flavor to it. You really have to get under 3.8 to start noticing sourness and full on sour beers are more in the low 3 range.
I’d second using phosphoric over lactic for mash pH adjustments. And a little goes a long way. For us generally between 0 and 1300ml depending on the beer (for a 20bbl batch). Average is about 200-600ml. |
Originally posted by Erlangernick
Originally posted by SamGamgee
Originally posted by joet
no, i mean acidulated malt is always 2-row sprayed with lactic acid
It’s pilsner malt that is either steeped in a lactic acid solution, or sprayed with it. Weyermann does one and Best Malz does the other but I can’t remember which is which, though the result is the same.
It’s basically an easy run-around of the reinheitsgebot to add acid to your mash, which is only allowable from natural lacto souring, so it’s either this or make a sour starter, which a lot of German breweries do. ...
How is steeping malt in lactic acid Reinheitsgebot-OK? You can treat your ingredients with whatever, but you can’t add whatever to the mash or brew?
You probably need to talk to a good Reinheitsgebot lawyer. 
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"All changes to the pH of the brewing liquor, the mash the wort or the beer; whether induced or consequential, are due to the formation, addition or precipitation of mineral ions or organic acids...
The pH of the mash affects the level of enzyme activity within it, and the acidity of the wort and the beer, the pH significantly affects hop extraction and protein precipitation in the kettle, and yeast performance and clarity of the ferment...
Enzymatic reduction of proteins to soluble nitrogen is most efficient at a pH of 5 or below, a level that conflicts with starch reduction optimums during mashing. Therefore it is necessary to make a longer rest at mash temperatures conducive to protein degradation, especially when the mash begins above pH 5.5.
At above pH 6.0 any mash suffers from sluggish enzyme activity and in the lauter run troublesome tannins and silicates are leached into the extract. With soft water and pale malt, the few acid ions cannot overcome ("invert") buffers leached from the malt, which results in a strong resistance to further acidulation of the mash.
pH 5.2 to 5.5 should be the target acidity for the saccharification rest of all mashes. This is the range at which enzyme activity, filtering, color and clarity are the best. A mash at 5.2 to 5.5 can be expected to yield a sweet wort of 5.5 or slightly above which serves hop extraction and flocculation of protein in the kettle."
- Gregory J. Noonan, New Brewing Lager Beer
http://www.amazon.com/New-Brewing-Lager-Beer-Comprehensive/dp/0937381829
It’s mostly about brewing and chemistry, barely about lagers. |
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Originally posted by Erlangernick
Originally posted by SamGamgee
Originally posted by joet
no, i mean acidulated malt is always 2-row sprayed with lactic acid
It’s pilsner malt that is either steeped in a lactic acid solution, or sprayed with it. Weyermann does one and Best Malz does the other but I can’t remember which is which, though the result is the same.
It’s basically an easy run-around of the reinheitsgebot to add acid to your mash, which is only allowable from natural lacto souring, so it’s either this or make a sour starter, which a lot of German breweries do. ...
How is steeping malt in lactic acid Reinheitsgebot-OK? You can treat your ingredients with whatever, but you can’t add whatever to the mash or brew?
The maltsters are getting their lactic acid via natural malt souring in warm water (basically a sour mash starter that they keep going to generate lactic acid). Since malt and water are the only ingredients added to the sour starter, it’s kosher. Breweries also do this themselves in many cases, and add a smaller amount of very acidic wort to the mash to adjust pH. Sauermalz is just an easy way to ad acid without having to manage lactic acid production yourself. |
Originally posted by SamGamgee
Originally posted by Erlangernick
Originally posted by SamGamgee
Originally posted by joet
no, i mean acidulated malt is always 2-row sprayed with lactic acid
It’s pilsner malt that is either steeped in a lactic acid solution, or sprayed with it. Weyermann does one and Best Malz does the other but I can’t remember which is which, though the result is the same.
It’s basically an easy run-around of the reinheitsgebot to add acid to your mash, which is only allowable from natural lacto souring, so it’s either this or make a sour starter, which a lot of German breweries do. ...
How is steeping malt in lactic acid Reinheitsgebot-OK? You can treat your ingredients with whatever, but you can’t add whatever to the mash or brew?
The maltsters are getting their lactic acid via natural malt souring in warm water (basically a sour mash starter that they keep going to generate lactic acid). Since malt and water are the only ingredients added to the sour starter, it’s kosher. Breweries also do this themselves in many cases, and add a smaller amount of very acidic wort to the mash to adjust pH. Sauermalz is just an easy way to ad acid without having to manage lactic acid production yourself.
Ach, so! I missed that somehow. Not SURE if I’ve really noticed a difference since I started using 2-1/2% Sauermalz several batches of low-grav IPA ago, but I THINK so. Seems "cleaner". |
