Some spontanous information please ???

Reads 1584 • Replies 27 • Started Thursday, July 17, 2014 4:09:45 PM CT

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Message caesar P beers 7642 º places 411 º 23:53 Thu 7/17/2014 Originally posted by VsXsV Mikkeller’s spontan beers are made in Belgium (at De Proef) and I think the base lambic (even if it isn’t made in the Zenne valley) is made there as well. But I totally get what you mean as lambic and geuze have TSG status in the EU as per EG 510/2006 and therefore should only products made in a traditional way in the Zenne valley be called this. It’s the same thing as for example with Champagne or Cognac. I like to point out some minor issues: it’s a registered traditional product, not a registered regional product. If you produce in a way according to these rules, you are allowed to name it Lambiek, regardless of where you are based. For gueuze are similar rules.
Message MagicDave6 P beers 1 º places 1 º 03:39 Fri 7/18/2014 The answer for what are the non-traditional Belgian producers making their gueuze blends with is both. Some they make their own using the same method, others are made from lambic bought from the traditional brewerys in Belgium.
Message kraddel beers 10779 º places 386 º 04:13 Fri 7/18/2014 thnx for the info given yet, guys ! Though it leaves me with even more questions ... First of all , the remaining original question - why are some lambic style-geuze, adn others sour ale ??? What is the defenition to class them in , here on ratebeer ? for instance, a pure sour ( no fruit ) from Russian river is a sour ale, while another sour from the bruery can ge a geuze ... Second , If some blend pure lambics, from belgium, than why are they not amongst the list of real geuze blenders, such as tilquin , oud beersel , ... I can imagine to be called a real ’oude geuze’ it has to be blended in the area as well ?? not sure thats a fact though . That would lead us to mikkeller, than , that is also blended in Belgium .... So many questions :p

Message caesar P beers 7642 º places 411 º 04:27 Fri 7/18/2014 As far as I know and if I am correct: In short, traditional lambic should be made by brewing a beer with at least 30% unmalted wheat. The wort should be cooled (mostly over night) by air (so no inoculation with cultivated yeast) and the bugs that are in the air will ferment the beer. I guess that most of the sours are made by adding cultivated yeast and bugs. Not all breweries have the materials (open coolship) to do it the traditional way. Some have though. Breweries that blend original lambic, can make a true gueuze. They do not have to be from that area, although some Belgians do claim that. Geuze should be a blend of old and young original lambic and bottled.
Message JulienHuxley P beers 6219 º places 450 º 04:42 Fri 7/18/2014 Originally posted by caesar As far as I know and if I am correct: In short, traditional lambic should be made by brewing a beer with at least 30% unmalted wheat. The wort should be cooled (mostly over night) by air (so no inoculation with cultivated yeast) and the bugs that are in the air will ferment the beer. I guess that most of the sours are made by adding cultivated yeast and bugs. Not all breweries have the materials (open coolship) to do it the traditional way. Some have though. Breweries that blend original lambic, can make a true gueuze. They do not have to be from that area, although some Belgians do claim that. Geuze should be a blend of old and young original lambic and bottled. In my recent trips to Belgium I’ve heard the lambic brewers and blenders insist a lot on the fact that they clean their barrels and Americans don’t as their most recent effort to seperate their methodology from the american way (the previous one was in regards to using a koelschip, but a lot of american breweries have those now). As far as how they are categorized, several elements come into play. Geography is not usually a big factor (although it may help, if you are located in Belgium for example) but brewer intent is. Some brewer intent is overruled by significantly un-authentic methods (see 7-day sour and what not). Usually if there is a legit effort made to reproduce what is made in Belgium, the end result is credible and the brewer states his intent of making lambic-style beer that’s where it goes. At least that is how I understand it (for beers like Lambicus Dexterius, Rueuze, Sonambic, Allagash Coolship) There is some confusion about lambic or gueuze blended with non lambic beer though, even in Belgium where this is common, you can find them in both categories which shouldn’t necessarily be.
Message rpattinson beers 84 º 05:15 Fri 7/18/2014 Originally posted by StefanSD American brewers do not recognize terroir as the US wineries do. Therefore anyone can call their product a lambic if they want. Yes if they have no respect for Belgian Lambic brewers. Slightly better than calling your beer Trappist, but not much.
Message rpattinson beers 84 º 05:17 Fri 7/18/2014 Originally posted by caesar Not all breweries have the materials (open coolship) to do it the traditional way. The English word for that piece if equipment is "cooler". Don’t know whay people insist on using a literal translation of a foreign word when there’s a perfectly good English one already.

Message caesar P beers 7642 º places 411 º 05:29 Fri 7/18/2014 Originally posted by rpattinson Originally posted by caesar Not all breweries have the materials (open coolship) to do it the traditional way. The English word for that piece if equipment is "cooler". Don’t know whay people insist on using a literal translation of a foreign word when there’s a perfectly good English one already. I was not aware of that word. Thanks Ron :-)
Message b3shine P beers 12184 º places 372 º 05:39 Fri 7/18/2014 Originally posted by rpattinson Originally posted by caesar Not all breweries have the materials (open coolship) to do it the traditional way. The English word for that piece if equipment is "cooler". Don’t know whay people insist on using a literal translation of a foreign word when there’s a perfectly good English one already. Because it’s precise. There are many different types of coolers, both inside and outside of the beer industry.
Message AdamChandler P beers 6124 º places 278 º 05:41 Fri 7/18/2014 Originally posted by JulienHuxley In my recent trips to Belgium I’ve heard the lambic brewers and blenders insist a lot on the fact that they clean their barrels and Americans don’t as their most recent effort to seperate their methodology from the american way (the previous one was in regards to using a koelschip, but a lot of american breweries have those now). That’s some HORAL’s stuff right there. I’ve heard that recently as the new differentiating factor between BE and USA ’lambic’ makers but truthfully anyone can clean a barrel. If that’s the only differentiator, not that big of a deal. ---- Very few Americans are making true spontaneously fermented ale, performing 2-3 blends of the same exact beer at 3,2 and 1 years old that are aged in oak and bottle conditioned. very few. I don’t think by definition that Reuze Resurgasm or Beatification are even following the guidelines to be accepted as Oude Gueuze if those same beers were in the Senne valley..they’re not following word for word the requirements to be Oude Gueuze. But they’re also not claiming that they are either. Rueuze may be ’gueuze style’ but honestly it tastes nothing like gueuze and isn’t really that good. Adam summed it up nicely on page 1. the category is lambic style. If RB had a category / style called "Oude Gueuze" I imagine most of those beers in there would be true OG and not these fake knockoffs.