A help or a hindrance?

Reads 5594 • Replies 93 • Started Friday, October 12, 2012 8:06:27 AM CT

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Message EdKing beers 3663 º places 307 º 01:50 Sat 10/13/2012 Originally posted by Christian Originally posted by chriso It’s a bit of double edged sword really. It’s understandable that those countries that did not have much of "craft" brewing scene until recently will cast the net wide in seeking inspiration. But where there is a longer tradition, I would not necessarily want to see that jettisoned to make way for "international" styles. I don’t really go to Germany or Belgium to seek out US-style IPA clones, for example. On the other hand, closer to home, I’m very appreciative of those brewers who look further than trad style UK bitters and the like. However, visitors to the UK, from the US say, may be more interested in more traditional brews rather than those from brewers who ape the styles they can get easily at home, and not always that successfully. Example: How much you guys love Kernel, while to me, it’s just another brewery using excessive amounts of American hops - which is always a great thing to do, but not all that special :) Christian. 3.1 rating for India Pale Ale Citra, 3.3 for 1890 Stout and Breakfast Stout French Oak??!! I think you are probably the lowest Kernel rater out there, mate. An opinion is an opinion but I really think you are off the mark on Kernels IMHO. Can we ban him from the UK forum for this outrage?
Message cgarvieuk P beers 37649 º places 457 º 01:52 Sat 10/13/2012 Originally posted by Fin I tend to agree with SaintMatty on the abv front, Oxford and around is fairly similar with very, very few beers over 5% available on cask. When you question anyone about this you always get the same old arguments trotted out that it won’t sell, it isn’t what the customer wants, they want a 3.8 - 4.5% session ale. I think that we all realise that this is a gross generalisation so why don’t more publicans request a stronger beer in smaller volumes, a pin is 36 pints and far less risky? Do many of you have much knowledge of publicans using pins at all? pins are a problem, many brewers dont like giving them out very far, as they tend to go missing much more. But Edinburgh makes decent use of them and we often see some big beers appearing in pins
Message evergreen0199 P beers 5938 º 02:29 Sat 10/13/2012 I like the Kernel beers for their complexity and elegance. I still prefer top end American IPA’s but that is just my preference. I have an American friend who visits Europe about 4 times a year and he visits London often who considers Kernel to be ’mediocre’. He knows his beer and is something of an expert on Bamberg and the beers from that town.

Message Theydon_Bois P admin beers 40590 º places 1239 º 02:40 Sat 10/13/2012 Originally posted by Leighton While it might be common to load beers up with American hops these days, it’s not common to do it exceptionally well. The Kernel makes exceptional IPAs, IPAs that I would rank among the best from my home country, the USA. I’m off on a beercation to the US in 3 weeks time, in fact I should be in the Crown Rivers right now ! I’m going to a tasting in Portland, OR one evening whilst I’m over, where I’ll be showcasing Kernel beers as my main contribution. I’ll drop a note back here of how they go down on the US west coast. I don’t beleive any of the people attending (I only know 1 guy) have ever heard of Kernel. Spreading the Kernel Love !
Message SilkTork P beers 7752 º places 111 º 04:15 Sat 10/13/2012 Originally posted by Fin so why don’t more publicans request a stronger beer in smaller volumes, a pin is 36 pints and far less risky? Do many of you have much knowledge of publicans using pins at all? The concern is the same regardless of size of container. The beer is slow moving/less popular so it takes a few days to sell. Each day the beer has to be pulled through and thrown away. If the container were small enough and the beer very minority interest, it’s possible that more could be thrown away than actually sold. Keg lines should be pulled through (or run through) in the same way as cask - though most publicans don’t bother as the extra carbonation will tend to cover up any staleness. Why waste beer when the customers doesn’t notice/doesn’t care? Publicans tend to prefer keg as it is not so wasteful. It’s not that a beer tastes better through keg - it’s just more convenient and less risky for all concerned. So you have cask - already risky and wasteful, and you’ll be inclined to get complaints from customers for off flavours. Add to that a high abv beer which will not sell as quickly as a low abv (and let’s not kid ourselves, if you’re in for a session, most drinkers will go for the session strength, and if it’s lunchtime, and if you’re driving, etc....). So a cask high abv beer is a double jeopardy. Slap on top the extra price for a high abv beer (which customers are reluctant to pay for one beer given that people tend to drink by the glass not by the abv level - so if it’s time for another round, the high abv customer will not skip that round because he’s had twice the abv level of the others, he’ll keep up on the glass by glass consumption), and I can see the reluctance of publicans to take on a high abv cask.
Message chriso P beers 7540 º places 736 º 05:58 Sat 10/13/2012 Originally posted by Fin I think that we all realise that this is a gross generalisation so why don’t more publicans request a stronger beer in smaller volumes, a pin is 36 pints and far less risky? OF course its not just the publicans. Many don’t have the option or inclination to go beyond the choice offered by their pubco/usual distributor. Those pubcos and distributors who work on big volumes and corresponsing discounts will not want to carry anything if they think it is going to be slow moving, with the result thay may get stuck with inventory.
Message wheresthepath beers 3446 º places 283 º 15:30 Sat 10/13/2012 Originally posted by tdtm82 True we don’t have a Flemmish Oud Bruin (please can someone brew this in the uk) in the UK yet Try Meantime - there’s one on the Old Brewery’s current beer list (second down in the left hand column) - not listed on this site yet: http://www.oldbrewerygreenwich.com/images/stories/our-beers/beer%20list.pdf With regard to the rest of the debate, I think that the UK’s current beer scene is pretty amazing. The only issue is the number of pubs were "a large range of cask beers" just means half a dozen near-identical 4%ish bitters (especially where they’re that standard selection of Doom Bar, GK IPA, London Pride, Adnams Bitter, Pedigree & Bombardier). I would like to have greater variety on the bar! Hopefully the new wave of breweries producing a far greater range of styles (OK, Ian, different colours and strengths of pale ale...) will eventually filter through to the minds of the UK public, and thus onto bars. However, I hope that this doesn’t mean the end of our traditional beer culture - I think cask is still a fabulous way of serving beer, and I think that Brewdog has made a mistake abandoning it (especially in their own bars where they can rigidly cotrol cask quality). I’ve had Paradox Smokehead and 5am Saint on cask, and both were far superior than the non-cask version. In addition, their Edge on cask is superb, and one of the top-rated milds on this database. I do sometimes wonder if the move of the new "craft" bars to keg is at least in part because, as keg lasts longer than cask, they are able to offer a greater number and styles of beers at any one time than would be the case with cask (ie they don’t have the beer turnover to offer this many of casks). This greater variety attracts us beer geeks, and therefore keg-only breweries have sprung up to service these outlets. Hopefully too we won’t kill off any of the UK fantastic traditional beers in the headlong rush to the new wave breweries. Just because beers are old fashioned, doesn’t mean they’re bad - Good King Henry and Fullers VIntage spring to mind... Cheers Anth

Message wheresthepath beers 3446 º places 283 º 15:49 Sat 10/13/2012 Oh, and just a thought - we all (including me) have moaned every now and then about boring brown bitters from our established regional breweries - but what would you rather have - our Fullers, Batemans, Sheps, et al, or the situation in most other coutries where the "traditional regionals" make minor variations on tasteless pale lagers? Truth is, we’re spoilt in the UK.
Message anon84892 beers 3284 º places 21 º 16:12 Sat 10/13/2012 I agree with what Christian has said. I’m not a massive fan of kernel ipas. They’re all of a decent standard but only occasionally anything more than that. They don’t stand up to the Americans, they’re not as clean or refined or hoppy. They all taste pretty similar, smell of piss and taste of yeast. I get that quite clearly a lot of people are in to that but it’s not for me. I think he does a poor job of showcasing the hops in his beers, they rarely have the characteristics typical of the hops that are supposedly in his beer. They are deceptively unhoppy, the dirty yeast notes and alcohol can be perceived as hop flavours which is why the all taste the same. My opinion of course and I know I’m in the minority on this forum so please feel free to stone me.
Message Leighton P beers 33731 º places 1204 º 17:07 Sat 10/13/2012