Tampa has surpassed us...maybe Jacksonville too...and South FL ain’t far behind

Reads 3831 • Replies 48 • Started Tuesday, March 27, 2012 10:46:46 AM CT

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Message Beerlando beers 3343 º places 70 º 10:46 Tue 3/27/2012 What happened to Orlando? We used to run the state of Florida when it came to beer. There was a time not long ago when people would drive over from Tampa just to get decent beer here. Hell, I remember people driving down from the Carolina’s or even further to hit up Knightly Spirits, as it had the best selection south of Philadelphia and east of Chicago. As I sat at the Pour House in Tampa this weekend, drinking super-fresh pints of Ballast Point Sculpin and Green Flash West Coast IPA (neither of which we get here just 90 miles away), I came to the realization.....we aren’t the big dogs in Florida anymore. Hell, Miami/Ft. Lauderdale/Boca has more things in development than we do, and they were a virtual laughing stock of a beer market just a couple years ago. Same goes for Jacksonville. I’d still argue that Redlight Redlight and Knightly are the best beer bar/store combo in the state because of the kick-ass job that Brent and Alan do. Oblivion was a decent addition, Redlight is growing bigger and better, and Cask & Larder will surely kick ass, but collectively those are small advancements when compared to what other FL markets have going on. Meanwhile, our distribution has fallen behind other markets, we have very little in development when it comes to brewing, and our beer culture just doesn’t seem to be as vibrant as it is in other locales anymore. So I ask the masses...what gives? Why is our market getting left in the dust? Is it because people are afraid to invest here because they think the growing Cigar City behemoth is too close? Is it because people falsely associate Orlando Brewing as a leader within the market? Is it because people see the nouveau WOB-style establishments as a fleeting trend here? Is it because City Beverage’s Budweiser roots are just too far established here? Is it because Reyes’ Florida Distributing Company just hasn’t fully gotten a feel for the market? Is it lack of capital, or general market conditions? I just don’t get it. What is taking us down this path, and why is growth so slow to occur here? What can we do to get back on track? We’ll probably never re-gain the title as Florida’s beer capital with CCB to our West, but we CAN be a strong 2nd with some investment into the scene. We can’t leave it all up to Brent, Knightly/Alan, and James Petrakis. Thoughts?
Message MlhopeTC places 20 º 12:22 Tue 3/27/2012 I’d say the brewery aspect of it is simply a lack of capital. I know two people with very solid brewery business plans who are simply saving up for the investment. The problem is, the people with the money here in Orlando are usually more interested in more concrete types of investments. A craft brewery is risky. I think I read somewhere that 80% to 90% of them fail, although this was including brew pubs. I think the concept of collective ownership is a very cool concept, but as a current owner of two small companies, multiple owners can of course cause issues. Also people do look at Orlando Brewing as Orlando’s brewery, so why would we need another? This is obviously ridiculous, and we can look to cities all over the country with 3 or more breweries. Additionally I don’t think the success of Cigar City would drive people away, rather it might show what is actually possible in this industry. Expanding in the sense that I think you are talking about is just a matter of having a small (or medium sized) group of people who are prepared to drop some dough and make some personal risks. "Expansion" could also simply be looked at as an increase in the overall interest of craft beer, but I think the general market trend is towards that.
Message GodOfThunder P beers 1364 º places 65 º 12:40 Tue 3/27/2012 Microman seems to be the only distributor who gives a damn anymore. That is 80% of our problem. Plus, nobody is giving me any money to start my brewery.
Message dchmela beers 3095 º places 108 º 14:06 Tue 3/27/2012 It is weird how Orlando seemed to get stagnate beerwise when so many other markets in Florida seemed to be booming. I too have run into Ballast Point on the west coast or loading up on Sweetwater while in the panhandle. What the heck? I want that here, too. I can’t help to think if it is a City Bev/Total Wine control of the area, but will let more informed minds argue that point. We definitely need another brewing presence to take away the stigma of Orlando being an Orlando Brewing town. I would love to be able to quit my job and make crazy Belgian Ales for Florida (with the odd IPA/Pale Ale thrown in), but alas like GOT, lack the financial backing and/or soon to be dying rich uncle to achieve this. Heck, I would love a CCB brewpub here in town so I can get fresh kegs and growlers without having to do the 170 mile round trip haul every few weekends. I have no answers, but if anyone thinks getting a bunch of slow, flatulent, slightly over weight guys together to break into beer warehouses to liberate cool brews for our market, I’m in.

Message mgumby10 beers 1856 º places 47 º 15:38 Tue 3/27/2012 When Gumby left Orlando, it’s like the Colts without Peyton...just no star power anymore.
Message Beerlando beers 3343 º places 70 º 16:27 Tue 3/27/2012 Originally posted by MlhopeTC I’d say the brewery aspect of it is simply a lack of capital. I know two people with very solid brewery business plans who are simply saving up for the investment. I could make the argument, though, that Tampa and Jacksonville are subject to the same capital issues (Miami not as much). I know the banks aren’t yet done cleaning toxic assets off their books, but that hasn’t stopped the likes of Funky Buddha, 7vnth Sun, Bold City, Intuition, Peg’s Cantina, Engine 15, Green Room, etc. Now we have Gravity and Wakefield getting ready to make moves too. They might all be starting relatively small, but that’s how the model has worked time and again. I don’t see any reason why the same thing can’t happen right here, right now. Originally posted by MlhopeTC Also people do look at Orlando Brewing as Orlando’s brewery, so why would we need another? This is obviously ridiculous, and we can look to cities all over the country with 3 or more breweries. Though you might be right, this is so hard for me to fathom. A lousy brewery, located basically steps from the ghetto, operating a a fraction of capacity, and selling its beer to seemingly nobody (I mean seriously...who even carries this shit outside of a few small, clueless accounts)....it just doesn’t add up to me. Originally posted by MlhopeTC Additionally I don’t think the success of Cigar City would drive people away, rather it might show what is actually possible in this industry. I can see it going both ways. CCB would probably intimidate me as a potential new entrant into the market. Each day, CCB is further entrenching itself as Florida’s brewery (and kudos to them for doing so...their timing was impeccable. When the cans hit in a few months...it’ll seem even more daunting for a new startup. Originally posted by MlhopeTC Expanding in the sense that I think you are talking about is just a matter of having a small (or medium sized) group of people who are prepared to drop some dough and make some personal risks. Agreed...though there are a couple of other elements that must be present for it to be sustainable; 1) brewing talent and 2) business savvy. Absent the seemingly endless deep pockets that Orlando Brewing seems to have, you gotta be supremely talented to last. Just like a bad restaurant, if you’re a bad brewer, you’re not gonna be around long. Talent plus business savvy plus hard work translates into success in virtually all industries. Joey recognized this early on and hired Wayne away from Foothills. If he hadn’t done so, pairing a supreme brewing talent with his business savvy, would CCB be where it is today? Not likely. Originally posted by MlhopeTC "Expansion" could also simply be looked at as an increase in the overall interest of craft beer, but I think the general market trend is towards that. Agreed, which is why I think this market would be prime for investment. There’s ample opportunity for someone to do something right now. As the Ravenous Pig and Redlight have proven, do something exceedingly well in this market, and the people will flock to you. I can see a few good local breweries being a smashing success here....it just takes the aforementioned mix to get it done.
Message Beerlando beers 3343 º places 70 º 16:49 Tue 3/27/2012 Originally posted by GodOfThunder Microman seems to be the only distributor who gives a damn anymore. That is 80% of our problem. Microman does a great job, but I I don’t know that they are the only ones who care. I think FL Micro is trying, but seems to be somewhat hamstrung by Shelton with respect to imports. I’d love to see them push for more labels...but then does that squeeze out their meal ticket Shipyard? I do think it takes a certain degree of ambition on the part of a distributor to push for new brands. I mean, I was told on Saturday that JJ Taylor is the only distributor in the state to have Green Flash (who makes a better IPA than anyone in our current market). How did that happen? Well, JJ Taylor clearly has some people with the ambition to go out and push for it. I think too many accounts here don’t know what they are doing and just accept that City Bev will load them up with Victory and Southern Tier, thereby solving their inventory management problems. Vicious circle comes back around when fed up consumers such as myself will only patronize the establishments that won’t bow down (i.e. Redlight), thereby not voicing our opinions to the proprietors who don’t know any better. It’s a frustrating situation.
Message PourHouseTampa 16:56 Tue 3/27/2012 Thanks for pointing me to this thread. I’m glad we get the stuff we do in Tampa but that comes down to one thing only: hungry distributors. JJ Taylor has been the 400 lb gorilla here for a long time. Pepin saw that potential market and went after it. I’d like to think Pour House had something to do with bringing Green Flash to Florida. When we opened up two years ago, we harped on anyone who’d listen to bring GF here. Pepin listened and was hungry for it. Now they’re the only distributor in the state. They’re hungry with deep pockets that put on their big boy pants and signed a contract. Great Bay had the same contract (in Pinellas) and said no way. Their loss. So harp on your distributor. Tell them what you want. They’ll eventually listen. As for local breweries, we had Peg’s, TBBC and Dunedin for years. It made things look more viable. Then the deep pockets of CCB came along and blew the doors off the thing and we love them for it. But it doesn’t have to be a CCB. Look at 7venth Sun doing their thing at minimal cost. It can be done. Now if Otown will accept it is another thing entirely. Not sure of the overall culture there. We’ve got it good down here for sure. But the general population has supported it. We wouldn’t be in business without that. Glad you enjoyed PH. Hope you can make it back soon. James

Message MlhopeTC places 20 º 18:21 Tue 3/27/2012 Originally posted by Beerlando Agreed...though there are a couple of other elements that must be present for it to be sustainable; 1) brewing talent and 2) business savvy. Absent the seemingly endless deep pockets that Orlando Brewing seems to have, you gotta be supremely talented to last. Just like a bad restaurant, if you’re a bad brewer, you’re not gonna be around long. Talent plus business savvy plus hard work translates into success in virtually all industries. Joey recognized this early on and hired Wayne away from Foothills. If he hadn’t done so, pairing a supreme brewing talent with his business savvy, would CCB be where it is today? Not likely. Well if you or anyone else knows a talented enough brewer who would be interested in a start up brewery, I know a talented businessman and marketing guru. And I agree, the only reason Cigar City turned into what it did so quickly is because of the buzz that the men behind it created. There is absolutely no reason why Orlando couldn’t at least support a small brewery like 7venth Sun. Demand would not even be an issue IMO.
Message MlhopeTC places 20 º 18:23 Tue 3/27/2012 Originally posted by Beerlando Agreed, which is why I think this market would be prime for investment. There’s ample opportunity for someone to do something right now. As the Ravenous Pig and Redlight have proven, do something exceedingly well in this market, and the people will flock to you. I can see a few good local breweries being a smashing success here....it just takes the aforementioned mix to get it done. Just to add onto this. I think that Orlando could easily support a few smaller local breweries, and probably even a larger production brewery or two as long as there was interest and distro outside of the local area.
Message Ibrew2or3 P beers 10535 º places 353 º 23:39 Tue 3/27/2012 There’s only so much the amazing Solan can do. He is why we drove for beer! Shipyard Emporium has got the goods. Any chance they’ll scale up?