Originally posted by CanIHave4Beers
On the other side of the coin we have Hitler being the part of this image that is distinctly and identifiably German, which of course he is.
Think you’ll find he’s Austrian.
And, after 13 pages of rantings, I think that it’s quite clear that this little ruse has worked - what other beer would have generated such traffic? (OK, maybe Darklord on ebay...) |
Originally posted by Gazza
Originally posted by CanIHave4Beers
On the other side of the coin we have Hitler being the part of this image that is distinctly and identifiably German, which of course he is.
Think you’ll find he’s Austrian.
And, after 13 pages of rantings, I think that it’s quite clear that this little ruse has worked - what other beer would have generated such traffic? (OK, maybe Darklord on ebay...)
Tintin could be fucking Dutch for all I care, he’s famous for his work in Belgium, as Hitler is famous for his work in Germany. |
Originally posted by CanIHave4Beers
Tintin could be fucking Dutch for all I care, he’s famous for his work in Belgium, as Hitler is famous for his work in Germany.
Don’t like being proved wrong, eh? |
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Why does the label need to have an intention? The beer is a hybrid between German and Belgian style. The first person you think of when Germany is mentioned is undoubtedly Hitler (even though he was Austrian) and the first person you think of when Belgium is mentioned is probably either Tintin or Marc Dutroux, so a humourous drawing mixing Hitler and Tintin is very obvious and probably doesn’t contain any deeper intention.
I don’t have German blood, but I do love the country Germany and travel there several times a year. Still, this label is not crude or repugnant to me. Because, Hitler IS a main identifiable icon for German culture in the past and also today.
Many posts have suggested that the label will make people not buying the beer and hurt the brewery’s sales figures in general. The truth is totally different. I work at two of the best beer bars in Copenhagen (Ølbaren and Plan B) with a quite large beer selection. Whenever we’ve had Tia Loca on tap in the last months, it’s been the top selling beer. I’ve only experienced two slightly offended customers (both German tourists). Every single Dane have more or less loved the label and it’s been a major reason for the beer’s success. We even have a small poster with the label on the wall at Plan B.
Servus!
Jacob
Originally posted by CanIHave4Beers
It’s been said over and over, but I’ll say it again. I want to know what the intent of this image is! After twelve pages no one has been able to speculate on what the content of the label is intended to mean. Which I have been pondering, and I seem to come up with only the rudimentary idea that tintin represents Belgium and Hitler represents Germany. If there is a deeper satire I would love to have it explained to me, but the image doesn’t seem to lend it’s self to any criticism, nor glorification of Hitler. Which brings me to another reason that no one has voiced as to why this is offensive, and it’s been a big one for me since day one. Tintin symbolizes Belgium, seems pretty fair he is something that cats can recognize as distinctly and identifiably Belgian. On the other side of the coin we have Hitler being the part of this image that is distinctly and identifiably German, which of course he is. But to those who are German, have German blood, or just love the country of Germany, using Hitler as a main identifiable icon for German culture is crude and repugnant. No, we should not forget what happened in Germany under the Third Reich, and no we should not stop political satire of Hitler. But if this label is a form of satire, then it is a failed one because after all this internet rigor moral, not a one person has been able to explain why this is satirical.
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Originally posted by Gazza
Originally posted by CanIHave4Beers
Tintin could be fucking Dutch for all I care, he’s famous for his work in Belgium, as Hitler is famous for his work in Germany.
Don’t like being proved wrong, eh?
You’re comment was perfectly valid, but I already knew Hitler was Austiran. I just don’t think it invalidates my point. |
Originally posted by Hildigöltur
I’ve only experienced two slightly offended customers (both German tourists). Every single Dane have more or less loved the label and it’s been a major reason for the beer’s success. We even have a small poster with the label on the wall at Plan B.
Interesting, that only supports some points from earlier in this thread.
I also find it humorous that out of the long and rich cultures of both Belgium and Germany that Tintin and Hitler are supposedly the most recognizable images (or I guess to Danes anyway). |
To be honest I have seen and experienced far more offensive content than the image on the label. Saying this though, anyone who does not see how an individual would take offense to the image is an idiot.
What offends me is that someone (within this community we all take part in and contribute to) would market a product by intentionally stirring up controversy, in such a naive, immature, and irresponsible manner in an attempt to further their personal financial gains.
This low form of marketing Christian is using by tapping into people’s pain, fears, and personal emotions by using the likeness of such a diabolic individual is a cheap shot thrown at every single one of us as consumers. |
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Okay, my two cents…
It has earlier been stated by somebody that people who don’t find this offensive didn’t pay attention in history class. Well, I did pay attention in history class (I studied history at the university), and I’m very well aware of the atrocities committed by that shithead. I’m also active in the anti-fascist movement in Denmark. I have had the crap kicked out of me by nazis. I have kicked the crap out of nazis. I have friends in Eastern Europe who have seen their friends murdered by nazis.
I’m not offended by the label.
I realize that it can be offensive to some people in some cultural context, but keep in mind, that this was made in a culture (Denmark) where it’s okay to do such thing, and people take this for what it is – a caricature. So I think it’s unfair to accuse Christian of doing this because he wants to play on people fears etc., it’s most likely simply because it’s a humorous thing to do in Denmark – no matter how it’s received in other countries. Now, it may be a bad idea to export the beer with that label, but has that happened yet? – I don’t know. But let’s take it from there if it happens.
I earlier posted a link to Avery The Kaiser which featured a picture of Kaiser Wilhelm, which didn’t provoke much of a response. But if I was the kind of person who was offended by beer labels, I would certainly be more offended by this label, as it actually celebrates a person who was a key person in the slaughter of 15 million people (and that’s not counting the fact that WWI was indirectly responsible for such great things as the Spanish Flu, Soviet Russia and Nazi Germany). – Why no fuss over that label?
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The image does use the color red in a way that deliberately provokes an emotional response. However if the image of Hitler were copyright this were a copyright suit, one could argue the image shown is not Hitler but a fictitious persona. There’s nothing that definitely proves anything or definitely ties the image to the identity of Adolf Hitler, if you really think about it. The nationalities tied to the style of the beer may be argued as incidental.
Which is about a ’safe’ way of creating controversy as is possible - hiding beyond a defensible pretext. In lots of markets public concern will ban products in spite of a defensible pretext, and this is almost worse because it allows another kind of human stupidity to prevail.
I would support freedom of expression - I mean who are we kidding about the intent of the company, and it’s a cowardly stunt, but it’s not really actionable. |
Originally posted by NosirIwont
Okay, my two cents…
It has earlier been stated by somebody that people who don’t find this offensive didn’t pay attention in history class. Well, I did pay attention in history class (I studied history at the university), and I’m very well aware of the atrocities committed by that shithead. I’m also active in the anti-fascist movement in Denmark. I have had the crap kicked out of me by nazis. I have kicked the crap out of nazis. I have friends in Eastern Europe who have seen their friends murdered by nazis.
I’m not offended by the label.
I realize that it can be offensive to some people in some cultural context, but keep in mind, that this was made in a culture (Denmark) where it’s okay to do such thing, and people take this for what it is – a caricature. So I think it’s unfair to accuse Christian of doing this because he wants to play on people fears etc., it’s most likely simply because it’s a humorous thing to do in Denmark – no matter how it’s received in other countries. Now, it may be a bad idea to export the beer with that label, but has that happened yet? – I don’t know. But let’s take it from there if it happens.
I earlier posted a link to Avery The Kaiser which featured a picture of Kaiser Wilhelm, which didn’t provoke much of a response. But if I was the kind of person who was offended by beer labels, I would certainly be more offended by this label, as it actually celebrates a person who was a key person in the slaughter of 15 million people (and that’s not counting the fact that WWI was indirectly responsible for such great things as the Spanish Flu, Soviet Russia and Nazi Germany). – Why no fuss over that label?
The only reason I didn’t respond about the Kaiser label is because I agreed with you. |
