Hitler on a label

Reads 20650 • Replies 144 • Started Thursday, June 25, 2009 9:10:06 AM CT

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Message Marko P admin beers 17941 º places 879 º 16:48 Mon 6/29/2009 In fact one who has paid attention in history class that was worth shit would either start getting offended by pretty much anything similar from all sides, winner or loser or stop living in the past and giving a damn.
Message sthlm beers 790 º places 147 º 17:25 Mon 6/29/2009 Originally posted by NosirIwont I earlier posted a link to Avery The Kaiser which featured a picture of Kaiser Wilhelm, which didn’t provoke much of a response. But if I was the kind of person who was offended by beer labels, I would certainly be more offended by this label, as it actually celebrates a person who was a key person in the slaughter of 15 million people (and that’s not counting the fact that WWI was indirectly responsible for such great things as the Spanish Flu, Soviet Russia and Nazi Germany). – Why no fuss over that label? I’m not offended by either label, but I think that the Hitler label especially is in poor taste. I don’t know as much about Wilhelm II as I do about Hitler, but I hope that you can see the difference and why there is no fuss over the Avery label. First of all, World War I happened longer ago, so there are less living ties to the war. Secondly, Wilhelm II was responsible for initiating a war that led to 15 million dead, but as far as I know, he did not systematically murder millions of people in the way that Hitler did (also, if you are blaming all WWI deaths on Wilhelm, then you can blame all WWII deaths on Hitler--all 50+ million). Numbers aside, how about we consider the fact that Hitler’s birthday is still celebrated by many Neo-Nazis, and that his likeness will most likely forever be linked with anti Jewish philosophy and sentiments. Know of many hate groups that worship Wilhelm II to the same extent? Finally, Avery is produced in the United States, not in a country that neighbors Germany. So, does that make it ok? No, probably not, but again, I really hope that you can see the difference.
Message NosirIwont beers 3755 º places 15 º 18:36 Mon 6/29/2009 Originally posted by OSLO Originally posted by NosirIwont I earlier posted a link to Avery The Kaiser which featured a picture of Kaiser Wilhelm, which didn’t provoke much of a response. But if I was the kind of person who was offended by beer labels, I would certainly be more offended by this label, as it actually celebrates a person who was a key person in the slaughter of 15 million people (and that’s not counting the fact that WWI was indirectly responsible for such great things as the Spanish Flu, Soviet Russia and Nazi Germany). – Why no fuss over that label? I’m not offended by either label, but I think that the Hitler label especially is in poor taste. I don’t know as much about Wilhelm II as I do about Hitler, but I hope that you can see the difference and why there is no fuss over the Avery label. First of all, World War I happened longer ago, so there are less living ties to the war. Secondly, Wilhelm II was responsible for initiating a war that led to 15 million dead, but as far as I know, he did not systematically murder millions of people in the way that Hitler did (also, if you are blaming all WWI deaths on Wilhelm, then you can blame all WWII deaths on Hitler--all 50+ million). Numbers aside, how about we consider the fact that Hitler’s birthday is still celebrated by many Neo-Nazis, and that his likeness will most likely forever be linked with anti Jewish philosophy and sentiments. Know of many hate groups that worship Wilhelm II to the same extent? Finally, Avery is produced in the United States, not in a country that neighbors Germany. So, does that make it ok? No, probably not, but again, I really hope that you can see the difference. I can of course see the difference between Hitler and Wilhelm, and the longer period of time that has passed (and I do think Hitler was ‘worse’ than Wilhelm). No problem. And were it two labels that set out to do the same thing, I wouldn’t have pointed it out. But my point here is that the Hitler label is a caricature, and the Avery label actually celebrates Wilhelm. I think there’s an equal profound difference in that. And when it comes to neo nazis celebrating Hitler’s birthday – yes, they do that, but they also use the imperial German flag which is also featured on the Avery label.

Message Macegan75 beers 872 º places 31 º 03:03 Wed 7/1/2009 I think that Denmark is not a stranger to controversial cartoons and that some Danes fought for the Werhmacht (German Army) during WWII complicates this even further. However, I do think people should be allowed to decide what goes on a label. Here in PA, we had to deal with our legislature banning the Manniquin Piss statue on a label and Legacy Hedonism as well.
Message Marko P admin beers 17941 º places 879 º 03:21 Wed 7/1/2009 Originally posted by OSLO Secondly, Wilhelm II was responsible for initiating a war that led to 15 million dead Wait what?
Message Hildigöltur beers 5101 º places 10 º 09:50 Thu 7/2/2009 No Danish citizens fought for the Wehrmacht. Around 6000 fought as volunteers for Waffen-SS. Originally posted by Phillies2008Champs I think that Denmark is not a stranger to controversial cartoons and that some Danes fought for the Werhmacht (German Army) during WWII complicates this even further. However, I do think people should be allowed to decide what goes on a label. Here in PA, we had to deal with our legislature banning the Manniquin Piss statue on a label and Legacy Hedonism as well.
Message Macegan75 beers 872 º places 31 º 11:55 Fri 7/3/2009 Originally posted by Hildigöltur No Danish citizens fought for the Wehrmacht. Around 6000 fought as volunteers for Waffen-SS. Originally posted by Phillies2008Champs I think that Denmark is not a stranger to controversial cartoons and that some Danes fought for the Werhmacht (German Army) during WWII complicates this even further. However, I do think people should be allowed to decide what goes on a label. Here in PA, we had to deal with our legislature banning the Manniquin Piss statue on a label and Legacy Hedonism as well. Thanks for the correction. Wow, even worse is they were SS. There was no way of denying the Arian ways if you fought for the SS.

Message DerWeg beers 2175 º places 48 º 17:19 Fri 7/3/2009 Originally posted by Hildigöltur No Danish citizens fought for the Wehrmacht. Around 6000 fought as volunteers for Waffen-SS. How many of them wore jackboots, and held a cigarette aloft between thumb + forefinger?
Message ChristianSA beers 368 º places 21 º 04:16 Sat 7/4/2009 Originally posted by beastiefan2k Disgusting, imo. What do you think? http://knutalbert.wordpress.com/2009/06/22/bad-taste/ no label approval necessary in Denmark? As both the artist behind the label and the brewer of the beer I have been following this discussuion with some interest. The last few months I have recieved numerous e-mails/beer mails/facebook messages from people who has been chocked, amused, disgusted, offended, angry etc. over the Tia Loca label. Many has asked what the point is. The honest answer is there was never a point to begin with. I was just a drawing. However the rather unpleasant contents of some of the mails I have recieved as well as some of the replys in this thread has opened my eyes to something interesting: It seems that some people feel the urge to demonizing you, when they don’t agree with you. Instead of just saying "Hey, I don’t like you or what you’re doing, but I respect your right to do it", they have to lower themselves into namecalling and suggesting motives that is totally out of bounds. This is not unlike what happened in the thirties in Germany. Implying that this little controversy is in any way similiar to the Kristall nacht would of course be outrageous - but it is still interesting to see that some of the same mechanisms are in effect. Tia Loca was only intended for the Danish market, where there is a tradition for tolerance. I respect that some people are offended but then just don’t by the beer for Gods sake (ups... there I just used the Lords name in vain:-). Have a nice weekend everybody, Christian P.S. To answer beastifan2K: No, we don’t have label approval in Denmark.
Message Marko P admin beers 17941 º places 879 º 07:50 Sat 7/4/2009 The brewer has spoken. :D Originally posted by Doggythedog Originally posted by OSLO Secondly, Wilhelm II was responsible for initiating a war that led to 15 million dead Wait what? No, really, what war was he responsible of initiating because it definitely wasn’t WWI (no more than several other leaders who started declaring wars/mobilising their troops at the same time). Also, I wouldn’t be surprised if there were even some US nationals in the SS, of German origin maybe but still US nationals.